Game Politics ([info]gamepolitics) wrote,
@ 2005-09-09 06:57:00
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California Legislators Pass Video Game Bill - Will Arnold Sign It?


It's up to the Governator now.

Last night the California Assembly passed Assemblyman Leland Yee's video game bill, one day before the bill would have died. The ball is now in Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's court. He has 30 days to sign the bill into law. His decision will be scrutinized by legislators and the media since, beyond the merits of the bill, Schwarzenegger has close ties to the entertainment industry and has appeared in several video games himself.

Here is partial text from the press release issued by Assemblyman Yee's office late last night:

On a bipartisan 65-7 vote (10:10 PM), the California State Assembly tonight approved legislation to limit children's access to extremely violent video games, now only needing the signature of Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger (R-Los Angeles) to become law. Assembly Bill (AB) 1179, formerly AB 450, calls for ending the sale and rental of violent video games that depict serious injury to human beings in a manner that is especially heinous, atrocious, or cruel, to persons who are under 18 years of age.

The bill authored by Speaker pro Tem Leland Yee (D-San Francisco/Daly City) would make retailers who violate the act liable in an amount up to $1,000 for each violation. In addition, such described video games would have to be labeled with a designation for adult sale only.

"Unlike movies where you passively watch violence, in a video game, you are the active participant and making decisions on who to stab, maim, burn or kill," said Speaker pro Tem Yee, also a child psychologist. "As a result, these games serve as learning tools that have a dramatic impact on our children."

"Governor Schwarzenegger is no longer an action star but an elected representative of all Californians; I am hopeful that he will consider our children's best interests by signing this commonsense legislation
into law and giving parents a necessary tool to raise healthy kids," said Speaker pro Tem Yee.

While Entertainment Software Ratings Board (ESRB) claims to be a non-biased ratings board that gives parents a valuable tool in deciding appropriateness of games for their children, they are funded by the
makers of video games who have a financial interest in making sure their games are not rated AO.

"Clearly the ESRB has a conflict of interest in rating these games," said Speaker pro Tem Yee. "Plain and simple, parents cannot trust the ESRB to rate games appropriately or the industry to look out for our
children's best interests."




(Post a new comment)

Well, it's happened
(Anonymous)
2005-09-09 11:45 am UTC (link)
It's finally happened, the Jack Thompsons of the world have spread there ignorance and alarmist ways all the way to the Calaforina Government. I can only hope that Arnold is smart enough to see this bill for what it is, that being the act of ignorant politicians trying to walk on the first amendment rather then fix the actual problem and educate parents. It's proof once more, the Old fear the new, and will do anything to try and control it. I for one am glad I live in arizona, where it's still Legal to buy any game I damn well chose.

Oh and Jack, just a note on your claims about Bully

1. There IS NO DEMO, There HAS NEVER BEEN ONE. Your claims about reviews, about E3,and about the game in general have been absolute Bull S#%*.

On your comments about games and gamers in general.

1. I'm 24 years old, Work full time, and enjoy watching movies, swimming, and yes, video games. I've not only been evaluted as being perfectly sane and non aggressive, at least I was before I first heard about you, i've been tested to have an I.Q. over 160. So I guess I'm proof that video games don't make you stupid or violent. Morons and assholes like you made me angry, though I'm still vastly more intelligent then you.

3. Most of my friends are also gamers, and between us, not one of us has ever commited a violent act or crime to date.

So in closing, here's my questions. Who in the hell do you think you are to Judge me, just cause I play video games? Keep your bible thumping mouth shut from now on and save what little Dignity your family has left.

Oh, and one last word of warning. If you dare speak a single word about my family, my mother, father, or anyone else i'm related to, I want you to come out here and put your damn money where your mouth is. What say you to a good old fashion boxing match, see if your fists are as strong as your insane hatred and bias. No? Yeah, I guess a fight wouldn't settle much, kinda like all your court cases. I'm to busy Working for a living, unlike you, so I'd have to waste one of my days off to do it, and you wouldn't be worth the trouble

Hope to see you around again, cause I'm willing to bet you'll have more childish insults for me and the rest of the forum members to laugh at. Me, I have packing to do. My fathers dying of Cancer, and I have to go visit him. You know, Cause it's the right thing to do, and cause I care about him. Concepts you are clearly unfamilar with. All you care about is money and your own Ego.

(( My apologies to Game Politics readers about the post, but if I did not vent, i was gonna erupt at a random stranger on the street, and I prefer to not give jack any more ammo. This way, I can vent and relax, and enjoy my games, and not be infuriated by this idiots stupidity, his bias, and his out right lies about games, gamers, and the Industry in general. Thank you ))

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Well, it's happened
(Anonymous)
2005-09-09 09:37 pm UTC (link)
Personnaly I applaud You for saying what you said..See Jack sees it as this..well video games are just a stupid hobby so no one really cares if adults have games to play cause in Jack's Mind adults only have the right to work and sleep oh and to be offended by material like bully weither they like it or not...Though if gamers are so ignorant and stupid wow thats a sad thing to say about your own son since he plays video games..

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Well, it's happened - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 10:30 pm UTC
Re: Well, it's happened - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 08:01 am UTC
Re: Well, it's happened - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 08:14 am UTC
Re: Well, it's happened
[info]gamepolitics
2005-09-09 10:45 pm UTC (link)
>>>My apologies to Game Politics readers about the post, but if I did not vent, i was gonna erupt at a random stranger on the street...

No worries, my friend.

Hey, very sorry to hear about your dad. My best to your family during this time....

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Well, it's happened - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 10:58 am UTC
Re: Well, it's happened - [info]yukimurasanada, 2005-09-10 11:52 am UTC
Re: Well, it's happened - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 03:08 pm UTC
Re: Well, it's happened - (Anonymous), 2005-09-11 02:04 am UTC
Re: Well, it's happened
(Anonymous)
2005-11-03 09:20 pm UTC (link)
You're still not smart enough to know how to capitalize first-person pronouns. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

ok
[info]joshdavis271
2005-09-09 12:07 pm UTC (link)
Pretty good, seems like this bill is not holding the industry accountable, but the retailers, oh and the ESRB can be trust, just as the MPAA can be trusted, mistakes happen, we cannot expect the ESRB to be perfect. I mean look at how many times the MPAA screwed up, and lets not forget about that superbowl when janet jackson had her so called wardrobe malfunction. that is what hot coffee was a malfunction, well I would not call it a malfunction but rather something that was not ment to be used, just like janets boob was not suposed to pop out, you expect too much out of the ESRB when it is Rockstar to blame, they left the code in and then turned around and blamed the mod community.

My bpoint is theESRB is not perfect, a government funded rating system is not going to be perfect, there will always be flaws.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: ok
(Anonymous)
2005-09-09 12:11 pm UTC (link)
Sorry, but government should stay the hell out of this. Government shouldn't be telling us and our children what is appropriate or us or not. Hope Arnold vetoes this piece of crap bill.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: ok - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 12:15 pm UTC
Re: ok - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 12:26 pm UTC
Re: ok - [info]joshdavis271, 2005-09-09 12:35 pm UTC
Re: ok - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 12:57 pm UTC
Re: ok - [info]lord_xilef, 2005-09-09 01:47 pm UTC
Re: ok - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 02:03 pm UTC
Re: ok - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-09 02:05 pm UTC
Re: ok - [info]lord_xilef, 2005-09-09 04:19 pm UTC
Re: ok - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-09 04:28 pm UTC
Re: ok - [info]lord_xilef, 2005-09-09 04:47 pm UTC
Re: ok - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 06:40 pm UTC
Re: ok - [info]lord_xilef, 2005-09-09 09:59 pm UTC
Re: ok - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 11:49 pm UTC
Re: ok - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 10:59 am UTC
Re: ok - [info]joshdavis271, 2005-09-10 12:13 pm UTC
Re: ok - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 02:15 pm UTC
If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It
(Anonymous)
2005-09-09 02:05 pm UTC (link)
The liberal nutcases in Cali will probably vote him out anyway but I hope he actually gets this one right. If he doesn't then I'm not going to feel said if/when the liberals vote him out of office. Videogames are a threat to traditional values in this country. Anything that is going to allow kids to have sex with prostitutes and murder innocent people needs to be restricted from children and outright banned for obscenity.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It
(Anonymous)
2005-09-09 02:29 pm UTC (link)
>> Anything that is going to allow kids to have sex with prostitutes and murder innocent people needs to be restricted from children and outright banned for obscenity.

So we should castrate/neuter all kids and outlaw pretty much anything sharp, pointy, heavy, poisonous, electrical...?

Oh wait... I get it. You can't tell the difference between a videogame and reality...

Sheesh... And they worry about gamers...

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 03:26 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 05:28 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-09 05:40 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 05:59 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 06:03 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 06:21 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 07:56 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 08:08 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-09 08:16 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 10:11 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-09 10:16 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 08:29 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 10:15 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-09 10:20 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 10:23 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-09 10:29 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - [info]uglyface2, 2005-09-10 02:23 am UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 10:29 pm UTC
Yes, Calling People Foolish Is Going To Get You Support - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 04:40 am UTC
Re: Yes, Calling People Foolish Is Going To Get You Support - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 10:19 am UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 01:41 am UTC
I'm Putting The Blame On Pop Culture - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 04:41 am UTC
Re: I'm Putting The Blame On Pop Culture - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 02:29 pm UTC
Re: I'm Putting The Blame On Pop Culture - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 10:33 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 09:02 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 09:14 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 11:09 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-09 09:37 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 10:46 pm UTC
There Are A Lot of Educated People Who Think The Same Way - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 04:45 am UTC
Re: There Are A Lot of Educated People Who Think The Same Way - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 10:49 am UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 04:45 am UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 11:00 am UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - [info]yukimurasanada, 2005-09-10 11:12 am UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - [info]joshdavis271, 2005-09-10 12:09 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 12:19 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 10:38 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 05:30 pm UTC
Re: If Arnold Doesn't Pass It I Hope They Vote Him Out For It - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 09:39 pm UTC
Contacting the Arnorld?
(Anonymous)
2005-09-09 02:17 pm UTC (link)
Maybe we should voice our opinions to Arnold, considering that the majority of gamers (the intelligent, rational ones) have clearly been under represented by schucks like Jack Thompson.

Oh where, oh where is the voice of reason? Won't find it in the old fogies of today who don't understand anything.

(Reply to this)

Jack, one last chance to reply as an adult
[info]jabrwock
2005-09-09 02:23 pm UTC (link)
You claim there are reviews out there of Bully that talk about the violent content. I seriously doubt you for the following reasons:

- Top 25 gaming websites have no details other than the offical TT/R* press release (believe me I've looked)
- PlanetGTA got an insiders pass at E3 for the R* booth, and they didn't even get to see a demo of Bully, even though they interviewed Sam & Dan
- the most in-detail info I've found was at cheatcc.com, and the only weapon they mentioned was a slingshot

So all I'm asking for is where you got your info about the character "bludgeoning with baseball bats". That's all. The name of a website or magazine will do. Anything to back up your statement:

---
"Read the reviews of the game by those who have played it--bludgeonings with baseball bats, etc. Just what we need in the schools. Wake up. Jack
---

So skip the name calling, I haven't insulted you, all I did was ask a simple question, there's no need to resort to name-calling.

I am not a goofball, and I *have* done my research. I just can't seem to find the same articles you've read, not for lack of trying, so I'm just asking for a poke in the right direction.

Would it kill you to provide a name?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Jack, one last chance to reply as an adult
(Anonymous)
2005-09-09 02:34 pm UTC (link)
Jack is known liar!

He lies and misinforms people to try to make his arguments seem stronger. This has been proven on numerous occasions. I would take what he says with a pinch of salt.

-Godofyouall

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Jack, one last chance to reply as an adult - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-09 03:08 pm UTC
Jack's out for the week! - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 05:00 pm UTC
Re: Jack's out for the week! - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-09 05:10 pm UTC
Re: Jack's out for the week! - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 11:39 am UTC
Re: Jack, one last chance to reply as an adult - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 05:15 pm UTC
Re: Jack, one last chance to reply as an adult - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-09 05:32 pm UTC
Re: Jack, one last chance to reply as an adult - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 11:37 am UTC
Re: Jack, one last chance to reply as an adult - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 03:13 pm UTC
Re: Jack, one last chance to reply as an adult - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-10 05:00 pm UTC
Re: Jack, one last chance to reply as an adult - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-10 05:02 pm UTC
Well, no answer from jack
[info]yukimurasanada
2005-09-09 02:59 pm UTC (link)
Well, it would appear that Jack has either not been back to read our replies, or not had the courge to come back and be shot down again like we are well known to do. BTW, I was the one who made the first post, and I'm sorry do appologize to you all for blowing up, but after months of hearing this crap, it had to be done. Anyway. doing some checking and research of my own, I have come to one conclusion. We are right, and they are wrong. My reasons are as follows

1. The vast majority of gamers are of voting age, that is to saw, 18 plus. Meaning by LAW, Mr. Thompson, we have the right to buy and play any game we damn well chose. Over 60 percent of gamers are over 18, so it renders your argument about this being about the children null and Void.

Also, Mr. thompson is both grossly wrong about games, gamers, and the industry in general. But I already dealt with that in my first post.

Mr. Thompson, it's clear to me, to all of the Game politics forum members, and to anyone with a working brain that your full of S#%!. You clearly lack any understanding of the games you campaign against, nor do you have any idea of the context those games are presented in.

This is one of the big issues I find. A lack of context. It's true, there is a large ammount of violence in GTA games, but the game itself provides both context, and provides a view of what happens based on your actions. Anyone, who has played the games knows that commiting a crime in GTA has the effect of bringing the Police down on you. The worse the crimes, the harder the response. And they will shot, club, and run you down to bring take you out. The game does not glorify violence, but uses it as a medium to tell a story, no different then movies, TV, or even the WWE. You sir, are fighting a battle of wits completely unarmed.

You sir, do not know, nor seem to care enough, to actually learn the facts before you begin spouting off childish insults and misinformation, to say nothing of the out right lies you said about Bully. The same holds true for the sims, Killer 7, and any number of games you could go after.

The sims has nothing obsecene, and is infact almost more of a teaching tool then anything. It is a game that simulates normal life.

Killer seven showed no sex that was any different from what I see on network tv.

Sorry jack, but you got nothing, and everyone, especially the courts, knows it.

Good luck getting your home back together, heard Katrina smashed it pretty bad. Maybe this event will teach you to focus on important things, rather then fighting against the hobbies of grown adults.

Have a nice day Game politics readers. I'm going to bed, packing is down, now its time for sleep.



(Reply to this)

Damned if you do, damned if you don't...
[info]ferrarimanf355
2005-09-09 03:20 pm UTC (link)
I'd really hate to be Guv. Ahnold right about now, being faced with the decision to sign this clearly unconstitutional bill or veto it and be accused of being in the pockets of the video game industry. The best case sceneario is if Ahnold vetoes the bill and throughly explains why, using the IGDA's ten points as a starting point.

http://www.igda.org/censorship/points.php

Then, for the kicker, he should explain that he doesn't want to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to defend the law when it's inevetably challenged by the ESA, and that money would be better off spent fortifying the infrastructure to avoid a Hurricane Katrina-like disaster.

What's Ahnold's e-mail address, anyways? I'd like to throw my two cents in, even though I live in Florida...

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't...
(Anonymous)
2005-09-09 03:38 pm UTC (link)
http://www.governor.ca.gov/state/govsite/gov_contacts.jsp

Which leads you to

http://www.govmail.ca.gov/

Let us know if you deside to write :)
Thanks
-JB

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 03:39 pm UTC
Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 04:00 pm UTC
Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't... - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-09 04:04 pm UTC
Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 04:17 pm UTC
Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 04:14 pm UTC
Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 03:39 pm UTC
Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't... - [info]ferrarimanf355, 2005-09-09 04:38 pm UTC
Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 08:54 pm UTC
Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 09:06 pm UTC
Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't... - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-09 09:12 pm UTC
Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 05:26 am UTC
Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 02:49 pm UTC
Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-12 12:31 pm UTC
BULLY
(Anonymous)
2005-09-09 04:48 pm UTC (link)
I found this whilst trying to search for a review that Jacky Boy (he doesn't like it when we call him that)keeps spouting on about.

Its from http://www.gamersmark.com/articles/173/

I thought it was funny.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Let me tell you right now: I’m disgusted. Have you heard about that game "Bully"? It’s a game that those sick minds at Rockstar Games are going to impose on us. My own son has a bully problem at school, and any chance of him playing this game will only make him realize how much of a weak molested little boy he is (wait until I start emasculating him at his soccer games). Playing tricks on teachers is one thing, but starting fights (even killing!!!!!) students is completely absurd.

While sitting in at the Meaningless Organization of Mothers (MOM for short), I heard all about the game and how you can do everything and more in the game including raping school girls and taking a gun to the school to create one Columbine after another. In this day and age, there are just things you don’t do; this is one of them.

Now, what I also heard at the MOM meeting right before we went into the 56th discussion of Hilary Clinton’s book was that major politicians agree that Bully will harm our society. A large sect of MOM called the MOUTH (Motherly Order of the Uninteresting Tantamount of the Hamiltonian) presented their findings based on extensive research of Bully have said that in their closed experiment, children ages 0-4 who played Bully for 10 hours at a time had extremely violent reactions while starving in their 4’ by 4’ cage, while the ones not playing Bully and eating as many sugary sweet snacks as they wanted were generally calm and passed out peacefully once their sugar highs died down. What does this research show, you might ask? It brings unchallenged proof that the games of today’s society are affecting the behavior of our children at a young age, not because of the way parents raise them.

As parents, we have no responsibility whatsoever in raising our children as schools and day time television programming (minus Janet "Whataslut" Jackson) are the only institutions of which should raise our children. While our children are preoccupied with being shrugged off towards other parties to look for values and beliefs to hold on to, we parents (moms especially) can go to Robinson’s May to look for a new way to spend our neglecting husband’s hard earned money on worthless things to make it feel like he loves us indirectly and to waste our time talking about Hilary Clinton’s book, carrying it around with us wherever we go (as if it was actually compelling enough to carry around in the first place) and avoid any improvement on our reasoning skills to see through the totally biased and uninformed organizations like MOM judge things that haven’t even been released yet, like Bully. But that’s just me.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: BULLY
[info]jabrwock
2005-09-09 05:04 pm UTC (link)
lol, that's classic! kids age 0-4 playing the game. XD

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: BULLY - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 05:11 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2005-09-09 05:09 pm UTC (link)
Indeed. If Arnold vetoes he will be accused of a conflict of interest. If he doesn't, well, we are already challengeing voted on and governor-signed bills in other states, so one more will just make things more peculiar.

As for the bill itself, whether it's a good idea or not, the movie industry is regulating itself without any "outside help". I feel video games should be no exception. There is no credible reason for them to BE an exception.

-Anonymous-

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2005-09-09 08:22 pm UTC (link)
Hmmm, I read through the law, and it looks to me like GTA could completely avoid it on a technicality. The main thing the law keeps rambling on and on and on about is games that depict physical and psychological torture. Last I checked, blasting someone in a gunfight or even fatally beating someone with a bat in a melee does not constitute torture, per se. Torture generally involves holding or binding someone against their will and punishing/coercing them. In GTA, the peds are free to run away or reciprocate the violence. More often than no, the latter happens, especially when law enforcement or gang peds are involved.

The Sims, on the other hand, could be nailed by this law more easily on the same technicality, given you can trap the people in small rooms and inflict massive psychological trauma, pain, and eventually death on them by means of starvation, fire, electrocution, etc. That is, if you choose to play it like that. Muwahahaha

As for Jack's alleged reviews of Bully, well, I scoured the far corners of the intarweb, and all I could find was that EGM and Game Informer magazines did in fact publish short sneak previews. It looks as though these previews weren't available until the August issues, and were based on info and screens spoon-fed to them by R*, rather than hands-on access.

Even the fine folks at GTAF, who are rather numerous and rather interested in all things R*-related, only managed to dig up one such preview. In Spanish. Not sure of the legality of posting scans here, and I apologize to Dennis if he needs to edit out the links, but here they are since Jack won't bother to corroborate his own story:

http://img302.imageshack.us/my.php?image=egmbully19cr.jpg
http://img302.imageshack.us/my.php?image=egmbully29to.jpg

-illspirit

(Reply to this) (Thread)

finally!
[info]jabrwock
2005-09-09 08:57 pm UTC (link)
Thanks! That'a all I was looking for. Of course these new screens don't show baseball bats either... worst I see is the slingshot Game Informer mentioned.

Now to load up the old spanish translate-o-tron...

See, I would have been fine if JT had just said "EGM had an article in their last issue". But he could do that? No.

So that took us what, 4 days to find? And the best we could do was a spanish article? Wow, we suck.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: finally! - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-09 09:10 pm UTC
Re: finally! - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 09:53 pm UTC
Re: finally! - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-09 10:11 pm UTC
Re: finally! - (Anonymous), 2005-09-09 10:33 pm UTC
Re: finally! - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-09 10:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-09 11:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 12:24 am UTC
Yee is a bigger idiot than Jack himself! - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 02:16 pm UTC
I just heard...
[info]ferrarimanf355
2005-09-09 11:55 pm UTC (link)
... that the anti-video game bill in Michigan passed both houses. I'm so depressed... :(

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: I just heard...
(Anonymous)
2005-09-10 12:03 am UTC (link)
Yep, that happened about a week ago. I was suprised that Dennis didn't post it on GP. Looks like the industry might have to fight up to three anti-gaming bills this year, if the Governator decides to sign this one.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: I just heard... - [info]jabrwock, 2005-09-10 12:31 am UTC
Re: I just heard... - [info]sothasil, 2005-09-10 05:47 am UTC
Re: I just heard... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 01:27 am UTC
Just sent a letter to Arnie today
(Anonymous)
2005-09-10 12:33 am UTC (link)
Dear Governor Schwarzenegger,
I am writing this letter to express my concern over a bill recently passed through the California State Legislature. AB 1179, designed to restrict the sale of violent video games to minors, is a blatant violation of First Amendment rights, as it prevents a portion of the population from viewing an expressive medium. In addition, the state cannot prove a compelling interest in protecting minors from harmful material, as no solid evidence exists proving that these games cause actual harm. I urge you to veto this bill once it reaches your desk.
Let me start by saying that I am not in any way connected with the video game industry. I am not a game developer, publisher, or retailer, and have no monetary interest in the outcome of this legislation. Nor am I a minor upset over losing my right to play violent video games. I am a 22-year-old law student at University of the Pacific McGeorge School of Law, and while this law would not affect me directly, I still believe it amounts to censorship, and will do nothing to curb youth violence and crime.
Video games, similar to literature, movies, and music, contain ideas and speech, and legal precedent has explicitly stated so. Within the past several years, three major court cases, American Amusement Machine Association v. Kendrick, Interactive Digital Software Association v. St. Louis County, and Video Software Dealers Association v. Maleng, striking down restrictions similar to the ones proposed in this bill, have affirmed that the storylines, messages, and ideologies contained in video games constitute speech, and are thus entitled to the same level of protection as other media. In addition, the courts have recognized children’s rights to view First Amendment-protected material, including the games in question.
Precedent has also failed to categorize violent video games as one of the forms of speech not afforded First Amendment protection, such as obscenity, slander, libel, fighting words, or speech that incites imminent lawless action. While Ginsberg v. New York determined that the definition of obscenity is broader for minors than for adults, the games in question still do not meet the definition of obscenity. Since violence, not sexuality, is the primary concern in video games, these games cannot be considered obscene, even when applying a broader standard. Winters v. New York, Eclipse Enterprises Inc. v. Gulota, and most recently AAMA v. Kendrick, IDSA v. St. Louis County, and VSDA v. Maleng, have affirmed that violence is a distinct category from obscenity, and therefore cannot be regulated as such, for minors or adults.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Continued...
(Anonymous)
2005-09-10 12:34 am UTC (link)
Mr. Yee bases his bills on a body of scientific evidence that supposedly proves that violent video games cause violent behavior and are thus harmful to minors. However, the studies conducted in this field have several flaws that call their validity into serious question. He may cite the joint statement by the American Psychological Association, American Medical Association, American Academy of Pediatrics, and other public health groups that “well over 1,000 studies…point overwhelmingly to a causal connection between media violence and aggressive behavior in some children.”
Unfortunately, that statement is blatantly false. To begin with, Dr. Edward Hill, the spokesman for the AMA, admitted that none of the heads of these organizations had actually read any of the research before issuing the statement. Furthermore, there are not over 1,000 studies that have been conducted on this issue. Over 1,000 books and papers have been written on media violence, and only a few hundred studies have been conducted, and these have proven inconclusive. Most studies do not demonstrate a causal connection, but rather a positive correlation. This correlation could just as easily mean that violent children seek out more violent media, or a third, outside factor causes both to increase. Correlations are not enough to demonstrate harm and the need to restrict access to an expressive medium.
The studies Mr. Yee relies on have multiple practical flaws. Most were conducted in a laboratory setting, and this sterile, artificial environment does not accurately reflect how the participants would behave in an actual, real-life situation. Participants often have very few decisions, such as to perform one task or another. This simple, objective method cannot capture the complex, subjective nature of human interaction. These studies show that video game violence is positively correlated with aggressive behavior, leading to laws that would supposedly prevent youth violence. However, the terms “violence” and “aggression” are not interchangeable. While “violence” has a relatively clear definition, “aggression” does not. Some of the indicators used to measure aggression in the laboratory include hitting dolls, popping balloons, acting out fantasies with violent themes, name-calling, and recognizing aggressive words quickly on a computer screen. Instances of actual violence-such as one child violently, physically attacking another-are seldom, if ever, observed in these studies. These examples do not demonstrate that children will commit actual, dangerous acts of violence in the real world. Even self-report studies, in which participants tell of their own aggressive behavior, consist of Likert response questions to vague statements such as “I fly off the handle easily,” and are not indicative of dangerous anti-social behavior. Laboratory research also suffers from a phenomenon called demand characteristics. According to this situation, research participants who know the researcher’s hypothesis tend to over-cooperate in an attempt to prove the hypothesis correct. Thus, participants in a study on aggression may be predisposed to act aggressively, skewing the results.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Continued again... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 12:34 am UTC
Re: Continued again... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 01:16 am UTC
Re: Continued again... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 01:17 am UTC
Re: Continued again... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 01:25 am UTC
Re: Continued again... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 05:20 am UTC
Re: Continued again... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 05:40 am UTC
Re: Continued again... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 02:46 pm UTC
Re: Continued again... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 02:48 pm UTC
Re: Continued again... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 07:48 pm UTC
Re: Continued again... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-11 07:04 am UTC
Re: Continued again... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-11 07:15 am UTC
Re: Continued again... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-11 07:50 am UTC
Re: Continued again... - (Anonymous), 2005-09-12 12:34 pm UTC
jack
[info]joshdavis271
2005-09-10 01:12 am UTC (link)
Why does jack even post here when a majority of the people here disagree with him? I guess he enjoys it, he likes talking to us, I just wish both sides would quit fighting and come to an understanding, I know it is hard but it has to be done.

the only way to resolve this is to get both opinions and do something that everybody likes, we keep our rating system, and they can fine retailers who sale adult games to minors, also change the age on the M rating to 18, that would make more sense, the AO can be used for porn games, not for a game with one sex scene, M rated games should be treated like R rated movies.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: jack
(Anonymous)
2005-09-10 01:22 am UTC (link)
As i've mentaioned before, R rated movies are not regulated by laws. No one gets fined for selling a 14 year old a ticket to see an R rated movie.
Also if we up "M" to 18 yo i'd like to see a rating imbetween M and T like MT for "mature teens 15 and up". Many lower end M rated games (Halo 1 & 2, Deus Ex 1 & 2, Half-Life 1 & 2) and some higher end T rated games (Warcraft 3, Battlefield 2) could go into that catagory.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: jack - [info]joshdavis271, 2005-09-10 07:59 am UTC
Re: jack - (Anonymous), 2005-09-15 09:44 pm UTC
Re: jack - (Anonymous), 2005-12-03 08:07 pm UTC
Against All
[info]sothasil
2005-09-10 04:25 am UTC (link)
After much thought, I have decided that I am completely against any regulation of game sales. If movies don't have to put up with this crap, than neither do we.

Arnold, do as you do best and say "Hasta la vista, baby" to this bill.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Against All
(Anonymous)
2005-09-10 05:21 am UTC (link)
Let's start wagering. I bet he signs the bill. It is a well worded bill and I hope he does sign it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Against All - (Anonymous), 2005-09-11 07:46 am UTC
Sounds Good to Me
[info]sothasil
2005-09-10 06:17 am UTC (link)
You will be playing as Jimmy Hopkins, a 15 year old ruffian that gets into Bullworth Academy after being rejected from every other place. Your objective is to build a "tough" reputation at Bullworth and make yourself respectable to everyone by any means necessary before the next year. Just like GTA, this is a "free-roaming" environment and you're able to choose between keeping Jimmy as the little bastard he is or turning him into a good boy (so the game can or can't be about bullying people, although you WILL have to fight sometimes).

If you're a bad boy, the teachers will get tougher. If you're a good boy, you'll get rewards (such as minigames... let's pray for not another "Hot Coffee").

If you decide to be a bad boy, you'll be starting fights frequently. Besides the usual fighting abilities you might think of, you'll also be able to perform dirty moves such as spitting in your opponent's face and using other "tools" such as baseball bats.


I have the biggest freakin' grin on my face now. One of the things I always stress to people is that it's all about choice.

Poor choices can have grave consequences, both in life and in video games. One of things I love about the GTA series is how true-to-life the aspect of choice is. If you steal a car, and a cop sees you, you're in trouble. If you kill a cop, you're in deep trouble. Now, the consequenes are much worse in real life but that's because it's exactly that: real life. You can also choose to deliver pizzas and taxi people around the cities. If people do nothing but shoot cops, it's because they're choosing to. Not because the game calls for it. Sure there's a dark theme to GTA, but if you choose to focus on it, that's your perogative. Nothing is forced upon you.

And now in Bully, the true-to-life portrayal of choice returns. Be a relatively nice kid who acts up now and then, be a complete jerk to everyone, or protect the weaker children from bullies, and be a shining example of humanity. Just like in life, every choice has rewards or consequences. From what I now know, this game is meant to let those who have been through school reflect back on a time lost, and make better choices. Or worse ones. It's all up to the player. It's not about promoting violence in schools. It's about providing a virtual playground based on life, where it's all about choice.

Now Jack Thompson has a choice. He can continue to spew ignorant bull shit and be laughed at. Or he can shut up, play Bully, and see it for what it truly is: A fucking video game.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Sounds Good to Me
(Anonymous)
2005-09-10 06:57 am UTC (link)
Well now, this game has an obivous choice of a good or bad path to take that offers consequences and rewards (much like Fable and Knights of the Old Republic).

There is no more reason to bitch about Bully now.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Sounds Good to Me - [info]sothasil, 2005-09-10 07:09 am UTC
Similarities and Inconsistancies
[info]sothasil
2005-09-10 06:47 am UTC (link)
"Clearly the ESRB has a conflict of interest in rating these games," said Speaker pro Tem Yee. "Plain and simple, parents cannot trust the ESRB to rate games appropriately or the industry to look out for our children's best interests."

That's funny, because the same could be said about the MPAA. They've been fairly inconsistant with their ratings in the past, but no one complains.

This shit really pisses me off. Parents regularly take their young children to some very violent films, just like they buy violent games for their kids, and ignore the MPAA ratings, just like they do the ESRB's. But no regulation for the sale of R-rated movies to minors, or punishments for theatres that let kids under 17 into an R-rated movie. And no accusations that the MPAA is in the backpockets of Dreamworks, Columbia Pictures, or Miramax.

Hypocrisy. Pure freakin' hypocrisy. I'm looking forward to the next scapegoat. Even if it's something I'm not into, I'm defending the best I can anyway, simply on principle.

(Reply to this)

JACK IS BAAAAAAAAAAAACK!
(Anonymous)
2005-09-10 11:43 am UTC (link)
I'm accepting congratulations for the shelving of the Bully game. Please send contributions to Al-Qaeda if you don't approve.

Oh, one more housekeeping item. You kiddies here have been claiming that there is nobody who knows anything about the content of the Bully game, which was pulled, by the way, because of the CNN Lou Dobbs piece and because Members of Congress were set to come down on the game like a ton of bricks next week in D.C. I should know. I was invited by them, but your Dennis McCauley here doesn't want to know about that.

Anyway, would the Times (of London) be considered by your children as authoritative that there is violence in Bully, with weapons? Hmmmm? Consider, kids, and then get a life. Put down the controllers, and move slowly away from your game-damaged brains:

Computer game lets children play the bully
August 14, 2005
The Sunday Times
By Andrew White

THE makers of Grand Theft Auto, the bestselling computer game in which players’ characters deal drugs, steal cars and kill policemen, are set to spark controversy with a new game which rewards school bullying.

Rockstar Games, which was founded by two London school friends, is already in deep trouble with American politicians and regulators after it emerged that the latest version of Grand Theft Auto contains hidden sex scenes which can be accessed by children.

In the firm’s new game, Bully, due to be released in October, players adopt the persona of Jimmy Hopkins, a 15-year-old thug who has been incarcerated in a boys’ boarding school.

Points can be scored by terrorising other pupils with a range of physical and psychological abuse. Players use their on-screen persona to kick and punch other pupils and even to spit in their food.

They can use weapons such as baseball bats and catapults. There is also an option to flush pupils’ heads down lavatories.


(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: JACK IS BAAAAAAAAAAAACK!
(Anonymous)
2005-09-10 11:55 am UTC (link)
Well, God forbid our nation's children start running around with catapults. :p

Seriously, though, no mention of guns, nor of killing. If a game that involves baseball bats is a "Columbine simulator," then a game that involves firecrackers is a "Nuclear armageddon simulator."

By the way, Mr. Thompson, I have one question, if you can spare a moment:

You've stated that American children brought their guns to school for years, without incident. How do you reconcile that with your claim that America is more violent than other countries because "we have more guns"?

~RG

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: JACK IS BAAAAAAAAAAAACK! - [info]yukimurasanada, 2005-09-10 11:58 am UTC
Re: JACK IS BAAAAAAAAAAAACK! - [info]uglyface2, 2005-09-10 01:47 pm UTC
Jack is, uh, high maintenance.... - [info]gamepolitics, 2005-09-10 01:56 pm UTC
Re: Jack is a idiot, plain and simple - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 02:22 pm UTC
Re: Jack is a idiot, plain and simple - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 02:41 pm UTC
Re: JACK IS BAAAAAAAAAAAACK! - [info]sothasil, 2005-09-10 05:43 pm UTC
Re: JACK IS BAAAAAAAAAAAACK! - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 10:53 pm UTC
Re: JACK IS BAAAAAAAAAAAACK! - (Anonymous), 2005-09-11 02:23 am UTC
Jack Thompson Coins a New Word
(Anonymous)
2005-09-10 09:04 pm UTC (link)
I should hereby like to say hasta luego to all my close, personal friends here at GamePolitics. If you know Spanish, that doesn't mean farewell forever. The modern English translation is "Later, dude." I shall return to be your personal pinata sometime in the medium future, most likely to gloat about yet another triumph in the ongoing culture war, whose victory by the good guys is assured. It is assured by virtue of what is guaranteed regarding Christ's return in the Good Book. I know how the struggle ends. It is in His Word.

In the meantime, I should like to leave all of you dear, cordial folks with a word I coined today, which describes most of the little hellions who people gaming sites, play games, and who engage in anonymous, cowardly attacks upon anyone with sense. The key, by the way, to the attacks is the anonymity that shrouds who you are and emboldens you to to attack with no facts because you have no faces. You mock real people with real names who dare enter the public square and put themselves on the line. You put nothing on the line. You hide behind avatars because you are utterly lacking in any semblence of bravery. Avatars are for cowards. Brave souls have real names, and they use them.

A number of you have threatened to kill me, sent obscene emails to me, obscenely described what you would do to me, my wife, and my child. How brave of you. While typing this, I received yet another box of Linux CDs from a modder in the Netherlands. He is a coward as well.

So, here's the word that describes all of those who have decided to allow the massive corporations that make "games" to steal your time and your virtue. You are the horde who have chosen to let the Paul Eibelers and the Bill Gateses and the post-Hiroshima crowd in Japan mentally molest you minors for money, stealing your souls and robbing your futures.

You are PIXELANTES. The term fits. You are vigilantes without a cause. A lawless group of misfits whose only reality is false, composed of electron-created images that construct a world that feels like hyper-reality, yet has no substance and no meaning. Your vital signs elevate with killings, thereby robbing you of all that is vital.

I pity you, but I oppose you. You pixelantes adhere to your fake world with religious fervor, yet there is no god in this religion. Just an altar on which sits your autostimulated egos. Masturbatory manna. The emotion you work yourselves up to with your killing games is rage. Rage feels like a justification for all of this, because rage is what it ultimately all comes to.

You exclude the God of the Bible, because there is no room for God in a cyber world of pixels where "The Word" is a cheat code that cheats you of your humanity.

Go fight your war, pixelantes. Look for your victims. The real victims are yourselves. Read CS Lewis' The Screwtape Letters if you dare think of escaping this pixelated Hell, and if you do that, and use your brains, you will escape. You will then be grateful that I came here to show you a way out.

There is a real world out there, scary of course, but nevertheless thrilling, more thrilling than anything found in any game. Get out while you can. Jack Thompson

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Jack Thompson Coins a New Word
[info]spock_walk
2005-09-10 10:53 pm UTC (link)
Whoever you are, could you try to post less content related to your faith, as you are sounding very chauvinistic, as not every person in the world believes in the Christian God, or any god at all. As I have reservations as to whether or not this is really Jack Thompson, and everyone has already stated anything worth saying, I would just like to say one thing: damn you, sir.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Jack Thompson Coins a New Word - (Anonymous), 2005-09-10 11:08 pm UTC
Re: Jack Thompson Coins a New Word - [info]uglyface2, 2005-09-11 12:34 am UTC
Re: Jack Thompson Needs a New Brain and some Testicles - (Anonymous), 2005-09-11 12:39 am UTC
Re: Jack Thompson Needs a New Brain and some Testicles - [info]uglyface2, 2005-09-11 12:41 am UTC
Re: Jack Thompson Needs a New Brain and some Testicles - [info]vansau, 2006-04-15 05:12 am UTC
Re: Jack Thompson Needs a New Brain and some Testicles - [info]uglyface2, 2006-04-16 02:20 am UTC
Re: Jack Thompson Coins a New Word - (Anonymous), 2005-09-11 01:29 am UTC
Re: Jack Thompson Coins a New Word - [info]uglyface2, 2005-09-11 12:49 pm UTC
Re: Jack Thompson Coins a New Word - (Anonymous), 2005-09-12 01:40 pm UTC
Re: Jack Thompson Coins a New Word - [info]uglyface2, 2005-09-12 04:57 pm UTC
Re: Jack Thompson Coins a New Word - (Anonymous), 2005-09-13 08:46 pm UTC
Re: Jack Thompson Coins a New Word - [info]uglyface2, 2005-09-14 12:00 am UTC
Re: Jack Thompson Coins a New Word - (Anonymous), 2005-09-14 04:35 am UTC
Re: Jack Thompson Coins a New Word - [info]uglyface2, 2005-09-14 02:21 pm UTC
Re: Jack Thompson Coins a New Word - [info]sothasil, 2005-09-10 11:38 pm UTC
Ah, Mr. Thompson... - [info]uglyface2, 2005-09-11 12:28 am UTC
Re: Another Miami Resident Coined Better New Words Than You, Wacko Jacko - (Anonymous), 2005-09-11 01:02 am UTC
Re: Jack Thompson Coins a New Word - (Anonymous), 2005-09-11 01:09 am UTC
Re: Jack Thompson Coins a New Word - (Anonymous), 2005-09-11 02:24 am UTC
Re: Jack Thompson Coins a New Word - (Anonymous), 2005-09-12 04:08 am UTC
Wow. - [info]mrfalcon, 2005-09-12 08:31 am UTC
Re: Jack Thompson Coins a New Word - [info]hilaryduffgta, 2005-09-12 06:49 pm UTC
Re: Jack Thompson Coins a New Word - (Anonymous), 2005-12-21 11:43 pm UTC
Violent Games corrupting children?
(Anonymous)
2005-09-11 02:40 am UTC (link)
What corrupts children is the lack of parrental controll. When kids play these games they ofcourse think that, yes they are verry cool. The point I'm going to make here is probably just about the same as a million other people on the subject. If people don't want their children playing this kind of game they shouldn't buy it for them. If the kid is old enough to buy it themself then the parrent should take affirmative action and just say NO.

There are plenty of us out there who just want to take our frustration out in a harmless manor. Playing a game doesn't hurt any one. it's a far less distructive way of venting than going next door and beating the crap out of the offending neighbor or going on a killing spree downtown. If the parrents of these problem children can't talk to them then get the kid a counsler. It's rediculous to say that these games can't be purchased and played by perfictly sane adults who DO know better than to act out the game on the streets of their town. In other words parrents who think these games shouldn't be available should get a brain, talk to their kids once and a while, and take some controll over their lives. That's just my rant on the subject though...

Peace:
€-Man

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Violent Games corrupting children?
(Anonymous)
2005-09-11 02:50 am UTC (link)
yea thats common sense right there but parents dont Give a crap about there kids

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Video Gamer Rips California Assemblymember Leland Yee
(Anonymous)
2005-09-11 11:04 pm UTC (link)
http://www.d3dgames.com/yee.html

'nuff said.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Video Gamer Rips California Assemblymember Leland Yee
(Anonymous)
2005-09-12 03:15 am UTC (link)
What ridiculous commentary that was. BOOOORRRRING! Yee has a good piece of legislation. As a parent, thank you Assemblyman.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Video Gamer Rips California Assemblymember Leland Yee - (Anonymous), 2005-09-12 05:02 am UTC
Re: Video Gamer Rips California Assemblymember Leland Yee - [info]sothasil, 2005-09-12 05:32 am UTC
Re: Video Gamer Rips California Assemblymember Leland Yee - [info]sothasil, 2005-09-12 05:27 am UTC
Re: Video Gamer Rips California Assemblymember Leland Yee - [info]sothasil, 2005-09-12 05:20 am UTC
Re: Video Gamer Rips California Assemblymember Leland Yee - (Anonymous), 2005-09-12 06:20 am UTC
Re: Video Gamer Rips California Assemblymember Leland Yee - [info]sothasil, 2005-09-12 06:33 am UTC
Re: Video Gamer Rips California Assemblymember Leland Yee - (Anonymous), 2005-09-13 10:21 pm UTC
Re: Video Gamer Rips California Assemblymember Leland Yee - (Anonymous), 2005-09-14 04:44 am UTC
Re: Video Gamer Rips California Assemblymember Leland Yee - (Anonymous), 2005-09-14 06:23 pm UTC
Re: Video Gamer Rips California Assemblymember Leland Yee - (Anonymous), 2005-09-14 08:02 pm UTC
Re: Video Gamer Rips California Assemblymember Leland Yee - (Anonymous), 2005-09-15 04:21 pm UTC
Re: Video Gamer Rips California Assemblymember Leland Yee - (Anonymous), 2005-09-15 05:18 pm UTC

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