Game Politics ([info]gamepolitics) wrote,
@ 2005-08-17 09:32:00
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Jack Thompson Asks Florida Court to Declare Sales of Bully a Nuisance

Can a video game constitute a public nuisance in the same way that a brothel or a rowdy bar might? Miami attorney Jack Thompson, the self-described "anti-game crusader" thinks so, and has petitioned a Florida court to block sales of Rockstar's upcoming Bully on that basis.

In a document filed with the court, Thompson argues that Bully "will be used by school-age children to rehearse varying levels of retributive violence in their schools, and that there will be a heightened likelihood that such retributive violence will occur in the Miami-Dade schools as a result...Plaintiff has, in writing, asked the defendants not to sell Bully...The defendants refuse to respond to this plea. Once the game Bully is released to the public, 'the horse will be out of the barn' and it will be too late to close the door...Sales...of Bully will constitute a public nuisance, because the sale of this game will..."tend to annoy the community or injure the health of the community, or become manifestly injurious to the morals or manners of the people."

The "defendants" mentioned in Thompson's brief include retailers Target, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, GameStop, Circuit City and Toys'R'Us. GamePolitics e-mailed Thompson requesting additional information. The attorney indicated that the petition was filed with the 11th Circuit Court (Miami-Dade County) this morning, but declined further comment.




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Jack Jack Jack
[info]toshirotzu
2005-08-17 02:25 pm UTC (link)
Jack, you say you know the consitution so well yet you continually try to stifle the first amendment with futile attempts to censor video games you don't approve of. Please seek residence in Australia where they pander to nutballs like you.

Signed,
America

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Jack Jack Jack
(Anonymous)
2005-08-17 06:51 pm UTC (link)
>>Australia

I LOL'ed!!

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: American Psychological Association News Release Today
(Anonymous)
2005-08-17 09:17 pm UTC (link)


Let's see if Doug Lowenstein can censor this news story, which relates to the lawsuit I filed today:

APA CALLS FOR REDUCTION OF VIOLENCE IN INTERACTIVE MEDIA USED BY CHILDREN AND ADOLESCENTS

Research Shows Playing Violent Video Games Increases Aggressive Behavior and Decreases Helpful Behavior; Learning Critical Evaluating Skills May Reduce Negative Effects


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WASHINGTON — Based on an examination of the research that shows the negative influences of violence in interactive media on youth, the American Psychological Association (APA) today adopted a resolution recommending that all violence be reduced in video games and interactive media marketed to children and youth. Additionally, the APA also encourages parents, educators and health care providers to help youth make more informed choices about which games to play.

The policy decision, made by the APA Council of Representatives, was adopted at the recommendation of a special Committee on Violence in Video Games and Interactive Media of the Media Psychology Division of APA, which reviewed the research indicating that exposure to violence in video games increases aggressive thoughts, aggressive behavior, and angry feelings among youth. In addition, this exposure reduces helpful behavior and increases physiological arousal in children and adolescents.

Research on media violence also revealed, that perpetrators go unpunished 73 percent of the time in all violent scenes. “Showing violent acts without consequences teach youth that violence is an effective means of resolving conflict. Whereas, seeing pain and suffering as a consequence can inhibit aggressive behavior”, says psychologist Elizabeth Carll, PhD, co-chair of the Committee on Violence in Video Games and Interactive Media.

Studies on learning also show that active participation may influence learning more than passive observation. “Violence in video games appear to have similar negative effects as viewing violence on TV, but may be more harmful because of the interactive nature of video games," says Dr. Elizabeth Carll, who is a private practitioner in New York and a past president of the Media Division of APA. “Playing video games involves practice, repetition, and being rewarded for numerous acts of violence, which may intensify the learning. This may also result in more realistic experiences which may potentially increase aggressive behavior,” added Carll.


Based on the findings, the APA recommends:

Teach media literacy to children so they will have the ability to critically evaluate interactive media.

Encourage the entertainment industry to link violent behaviors with negative social consequences.

Develop and disseminate a content-based rating system that accurately reflects the content of the video games and interactive media.

Developers of violent video games and interactive media address the issues that playing these games may increase aggressive thoughts and behaviors in children and adolescents and that these effects may potentially be greater than the effects of exposure to violent television and movies.


Committee on Violence in Video Games and Interactive Media: Elizabeth Carll, PhD, and Dorothy Singer, EdD co-chairs; Craig Anderson, PhD, Brad Bushman, PhD, Karen Dill, PhD and Lilli Friedland, PhD.

Full text of the resolution is available from the APA Public Affairs Office and at: http://www.apa.org/releases/resolutiononvideoviolence.pdf



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The American Psychological Association (APA), in Washington, DC, is the largest scientific and professional organization representing psychology in the United States and is the world's largest association of psychologists. APA's membership includes more than 150,000 researchers, educators, clinicians, consultants and students. Through its divisions in 53 subfields of psychology and affiliations with 60 state, territorial and Canadian provincial associations, APA works to advance psychology as a science, as a profession and as a means of promoting human welfare.


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(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: American Psychological Association News Release Today - [info]toshirotzu, 2005-08-17 09:23 pm UTC
Re: American Psychological Association News Release Today - [info]jabrwock, 2005-08-18 10:55 pm UTC

[info]jiggliusceasar
2005-08-17 02:49 pm UTC (link)
And stopping the game from being sold in one county will accomplish... what, exactly?

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(Anonymous)
2005-08-17 06:53 pm UTC (link)
Nothing tangable, but a sense of victory and pride for the "anti-gaming" clique.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

My lawsuit
(Anonymous)
2005-08-17 09:21 pm UTC (link)
If this "news" site bothered to actually post the lawsuit, the full text of which it has, you'll see how this lawsuit may affect the sale of the game nationally. I sued Best Buy last October in a similar action, and the result was that Best Buy agreed to alter its age ID policy nationally. If this site were less strident and ideological, there would be more real news here. Jack Thompson

Game Politics, post the text of the lawsuit, why don't you?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: My lawsuit - [info]gamepolitics, 2005-08-17 10:13 pm UTC
Re: My lawsuit - [info]bm03, 2005-08-17 10:42 pm UTC
Dennis McCauley, Chief Censor at Game Politics - (Anonymous), 2005-08-17 11:12 pm UTC
Re: Dennis McCauley, Chief Censor at Game Politics - [info]gamepolitics, 2005-08-18 12:03 am UTC
Re: Dennis McCauley, Chief Censor at Game Politics - [info]gamepolitics, 2005-08-18 12:39 am UTC
Re: Jack Thompson, Chief Censor of America - (Anonymous), 2005-08-19 01:42 pm UTC
At the risk of incurring your so far impotent wrath... - [info]bm03, 2005-08-17 10:25 pm UTC
Re: At the risk of incurring your so far impotent wrath... - (Anonymous), 2005-08-17 11:15 pm UTC
Re: At the risk of incurring your so far impotent wrath... - [info]bm03, 2005-08-18 01:37 am UTC
Hey Jack, guess what? - [info]quad9damage, 2005-08-18 02:24 am UTC
Re: My lawsuit - (Anonymous), 2005-08-18 03:55 pm UTC
Hmmmm
(Anonymous)
2005-08-17 03:02 pm UTC (link)
When I was a teen I remember really wanting to beat up a praticularly loud mouthed jerk. Instead I went home & played fighting & wrestling games until my anger melted away, this never drew media attention, I guess "Kid Blows off Steam!" is not news worthy.

I think that "Bully" will give teens the chance to live out a "Bully" fantasy without bringing it into the real world.

Just my two cents. -JB

(Reply to this)


[info]jacque_q
2005-08-17 03:30 pm UTC (link)
I got an idea for Mr. Thompson and the rest of those nutballs: If they don't like the game don't buy it! I thought we were free to choose things in America? Legislating morality is stupid.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Jack Thompson is the Bully
(Anonymous)
2005-08-17 04:10 pm UTC (link)
If anyone is a Bully it is Jack Thompson.

Sending threatening emails and letters out to us gamers, Bill Gates and various others who do not take his words as the gospel.

Of course children shouldn't be playing these kind of games but they are designed for the Adult gamer hence the M ratings. You could say that you should ban cigarettes, alcohol, adult movies and books because there is a chance that children could get access to them, it's just ludicrous.

Until conclusive evidence is found showing a link between violence and video games (and not the pathetic studies that Jack refers to all the time) then Jack's efforts will always falter.

-Godofyouall

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Jack Thompson is the Bully - (Anonymous), 2005-08-17 09:24 pm UTC
Re: Jack Thompson is the Bully - [info]jacque_q, 2005-08-17 10:20 pm UTC
Re: Jack Thompson is the Bully - (Anonymous), 2005-08-17 11:16 pm UTC
Re: Jack Thompson is the Bully - (Anonymous), 2005-08-18 01:07 pm UTC
Re: Jack Thompson is the Bully - (Anonymous), 2005-08-17 11:15 pm UTC
Re: Jack Thompson is the Bully - (Anonymous), 2005-08-18 01:51 am UTC
No strong link seen between violent video games and aggression - (Anonymous), 2005-08-18 08:38 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2005-08-17 09:22 pm UTC (link)
No, you're not free to buy anything you want in this country. Next question?

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Ugh
(Anonymous)
2005-08-17 04:41 pm UTC (link)
I can't believe all the things he's doing to a game that isn't even out and no one has no idea what the game will be about!

(Reply to this)


[info]dopefish57
2005-08-17 04:58 pm UTC (link)
Isn't Jack a public nuisance?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

It just occured to me...
[info]quartermaine
2005-08-17 06:32 pm UTC (link)
It just occured to me, how much does anyone in the general public, game media, or even JT know about Bully? From what I've seen, it doesn't even seem to have killing in it. The whole problem seems to be the environment the game takes place in. Can anyone tell me if there's killing in Bully?

It seems to me that people are jumping over this without any real knowledge of what is going on or what the game is actually about.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: It just occured to me... - [info]bm03, 2005-08-17 08:05 pm UTC
Re: It just occured to me... - [info]bm03, 2005-08-17 08:06 pm UTC
Re: It just occured to me... - (Anonymous), 2005-08-17 11:16 pm UTC
Re: It just occured to me... - [info]gamepolitics, 2005-08-18 12:24 am UTC
Re: It just occured to me... - [info]bm03, 2005-08-18 01:46 am UTC

[info]bm03
2005-08-17 08:00 pm UTC (link)
Or: teachers can actually dish some punishments out for a change.

You never know, it just might work.

/b

(Reply to this)

Playing devils advocate
(Anonymous)
2005-08-17 09:22 pm UTC (link)
What a few of you guys need to realize is that Florida is Jack's backyard, so it seems like a logical place for him to start in this one county. A success here could pave the way for him to move on to bigger arenas.

Second thing is that this game really cuts close to Columbine. Jack was on the Today show touting the dangers of Doom the week before the Columbine tragedy.

I'm just stating the truth here. I belive that an M rating is sufficient here but I am starting to realize that most parents ignore them when picking games for thier kids. Obviously someone who is mature enough to play this game would be grown enough to be out of elementary school, but what JT is fighting for is to keep this game out of youngsters. Only his problem is to get rid of the game all together.

And not to sound like I'm defending the man here, but I find it hard to believe that he can be as wacko as all the stuff I read about him on the internets. Can he?

Michael Wade
hotcoffee.dahifi.net

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Playing devils advocate
[info]toshirotzu
2005-08-17 09:29 pm UTC (link)
"And not to sound like I'm defending the man here, but I find it hard to believe that he can be as wacko as all the stuff I read about him on the internets. Can he?"

You obviously haven't heard the recordings of phone conversations and replies to emails he's sent out or his press releases or his speeches. The guy's fucking nuts and more violent than gamers could ever hope to be.

On the point about games, no one's suggesting that kids should have easy access to mature games, however banning a game outright goes beyond protecting children and starts infringing on the rights of adults who are able to play those games and make their own personal decisions on what content they can and can't view.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Playing devils advocate - (Anonymous), 2005-08-17 11:17 pm UTC
Re: Playing devils advocate - (Anonymous), 2005-08-18 01:01 am UTC
Re: More like playing the ass-kisser since Jack gave you praise - (Anonymous), 2005-08-18 12:55 am UTC
Re: More like playing the ass-kisser since Jack gave you praise - [info]jacque_q, 2005-08-18 01:44 am UTC
Will the real Jack Thompson please stand up? - (Anonymous), 2005-08-18 05:10 am UTC
Re: Will the real Jack Thompson please stand up? - (Anonymous), 2005-08-18 11:55 am UTC
Re: Will the real Jack Thompson please stand up? - (Anonymous), 2005-08-18 11:56 am UTC

[info]phoenixzero
2005-08-17 09:56 pm UTC (link)
Meh, all schools do is give vacations.. Yeah, suspending someone for a couple days really teaches them a lesson.

Remember all that paranoia after Columbine? They didn't go after the bullies (the cause of most problems) they went after the bullied and "outsiders". If anything, those that are bullied (like I was for most of my time in our "wonderful" education system) will find this game as a means of release instead of turning to real violence.

But of course, once this game is out the fact that bullying has been around since forever, will be forgotten.

You know, I remember hearing Jack Thompson was/is a Batman fan, I don't know if this is true or not but I wonder how he felt when comics were attacked back when he was a kid/teenager.

(Reply to this)

Video games aren't harmful
(Anonymous)
2005-08-17 10:19 pm UTC (link)
From the research I've done, it has been found that violent video games help kids vent. They also improve reaction times, ability to identify things more quickly, and better react to a stressful situation, among other things. And the nonhelpful behavior doesn't come from the video games, that comes with their surroundings and how they were raised. I've played violent video games since I was 2. I help people, I don't go on killing sprees, and I have to constantly defend video games from stupid people who are constantly going to show "proof" about how bad they are simply becuase they have been brainwashed into thinking so and are to idiotic to actually see that they are wrong.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Video games aren't harmful
(Anonymous)
2005-08-17 11:19 pm UTC (link)
Nope, the heads of 6 major health care organizations testified jointly before Congress that these games rehearse violence and cause. Plus, see the APA's findings today. The debate over whether violent games are harmful is over, kids. Sorry, but it is over.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Video games aren't harmful - [info]jabrwock, 2005-08-18 11:05 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2005-08-17 10:43 pm UTC (link)
Dear Mr. Thompson:

As someone who studied psychology as an undergraduate major in college, I was aware of all the studies that you and the APA relies on. However, learning about research methods shows that the studies cited have several flaws in their experimental design. They are conducted mostly in a laboratory setting, and use measures of "aggression" (not even violence) that have no bearing on real-world behavior, i.e. Anderson and Dill's "noise blast" study. If you had cited a study where the subjects, after playing violent video games, physically attacked each other out of anger, you might have a basis for your "video games cause violence" argument. So far, if any studies like that have even been conducted, they do not reach that conclusion, otherwise the APA would champion them as their leading research rather than the lab studies mentioned above.

(Reply to this)

Video Games aren't a "cure-it-all".
(Anonymous)
2005-08-17 11:13 pm UTC (link)
I just want to pop in and remind everyone that while all these studies for video games are being thrown around, it's naive to conclude that video games provide a health benefit.

Undoubtedly video games help. And they help a LOT for children suffering from certain disabilities. As stated above, games help with hand-eye coordination, reaction times, IDing objects, prioritizing, making decisions, overcoming learning curves, plannig ahead, and learning how to take a loss. They don't, however, makes geniuses out of people or gift them with a great looking body.

So while it's silly to say that video games cause people to kill, we shouldn't be blinded by the studies pointing out the good sides of games.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Video Games aren't a "cure-it-all".
(Anonymous)
2005-08-17 11:21 pm UTC (link)
The debate is NOT over whether video games can enhance certain skills. The culture war debate is over whether violent games are harmful and lead to violence. The American Psychological Association issued its definitive results today (this is the largest organization of its type in the world, and it is very liberal) and the APA found that these games are indeed harmful to the health of those who play them. The debate is over. Doug "Joseph Goebbels" Lowenstein loses.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Video Games aren't a "cure-it-all". - [info]gamepolitics, 2005-08-18 12:20 am UTC
Re: Video Games aren't a "cure-it-all". - [info]blackmanta, 2005-08-18 12:31 am UTC
Re: Video Games aren't a "cure-it-all". - (Anonymous), 2005-08-18 04:48 pm UTC
Time will tell
(Anonymous)
2005-08-18 05:31 am UTC (link)
It seems obvious to me that Mr. Thompson is nothing more than a petulant kid who will whine and scream and bawl his head off (in the form of highly-biased, illogical press releases, vengeful and divisive letters and overly-broad litigation) until he gets his way. And 'his way' seems to change with every passing decade, attacking whatever form of entertainment is the current 'whipping-boy' for the conservative middle-ager, so that he can get on the talk shpow circuit and promote whatever new book/service/organization he's selling.

But as sure as I'm sitting here, I know that long after Mr. Thompson's death, long after all of our deaths, and our kids deaths, people will be enjoying interactive entertainment. Some of it will be violent, sexual and vulgar beyond what any of us would consider acceptable. And some of it won't. And great games like Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas and The Sims will be remembered in the annals of time, whereas uptight blowhards like Jack Thompson will be forgotten quicker than the joker who won Big Brother last week.

And here's a heads-up for Mr. Thompson: All of your wild gesticulating about Bully will just help it get more exposure. A lot of people who didn't know about Bully before will learn of it through you. Some of those people will get curious enough about the game to buy it. If I were you, I'd ask Take Two for some sort of promotional fee.

(Reply to this)

Re: Jack Thompson is the Bully
[info]crowster
2005-08-18 03:39 pm UTC (link)
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/cv2.htm
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/house2.htm
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/vsx2.htm
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/firearmnonfatalno.htm

Now, I'm no expert, mind you, but I don't think that the thingies going downish mean there is a rise in crime, unless it has jumped shockingly high in the past 2 years.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Jack Thompson is the Bully
(Anonymous)
2005-08-18 05:34 pm UTC (link)
Jack likes to read graphs upside down.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Phear my elite mouse clicking skills!
[info]jabrwock
2005-08-18 10:35 pm UTC (link)
I don't see a connection between clicking a mouse and pulling a trigger. Maybe with those arcade games where you actually have a plastic gun to play with.. or if they could come out with some kind of gun that is controlled by a mouse...

Anyone who was not taught the difference between real and virtual violence is going to end up hurting people. Look at 2 year olds. They are the most violent people on the planet! Why? Because they have no concept of right or wrong, or how their actions affect others. Once they've been taught the difference, they can view any event in any form of media, and judge it's "rigthness" based on the distinction they were previously taught.

Once we've been taught that distinction, we've passed the point of being Pavlov's dogs, and have entered the realm of critical thinkers, able to analyse a situation based on previous experiences. That's how we learn.

Children who do not have that distinction instilled in them are doomed (pardon the pun) to live out their lives, unable to tell when they've crossed the line and begun to behave "wrong" instead of "right".

So, in conclusion, I think we should, rather than sue the stores and game companies, sue the parents who were responsible for raising such badly behaved little brats who can't tell right from wrong. I'd call that willfull neglect on the part of the parents.

But then again, why do I expect Jack Thompson to even look at my post? I am a gamer after all. Not part of his intended audience, and so not worthy of a mature discussion.

(Reply to this)

Another study, probably ignored by Congress
[info]jabrwock
2005-08-18 11:11 pm UTC (link)
http://www.news.uiuc.edu/news/05/0809videogames.html

No strong link seen between violent video games and aggression
University of Illinois

A new study has found that exposure to violent online fantasy video games did not cause any substantial real-world aggression. The results, said Dmitri Williams, lead author of the study, support the contention of those who suggest that some violent games do not necessarily lead to increased real-world aggression. But researchers concede that other types of games and contexts might have negative impacts.

------------------

Not sponsored by the gaming industry, not sponsored by any organizations who's prime interest is in making sure you take the blue pill, and not edited by a major news organization to make it more sensational.

(Reply to this)

It's more like Jack is the nuisance.
[info]omgbanthehacker
2005-08-19 05:57 am UTC (link)
Let's ask the same Florida court to declare Jack Thompson a nuisance.

Hey Jack, how do you sleep at night on all this? You claim to be a Christian and urge others to read the Bible; and the last time I checked telling lies like you do to manipulate the under-informed is sin and obviously not of God. Are you a practicing Christian or what? When was the last time you have been to church and/or read the Bible?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: It's more like Jack is the nuisance.
[info]lazydriver
2005-08-20 08:26 pm UTC (link)
Soo true. Hey Jackass, like my picture? That's you see! I agree, and he should be considered un-fit to be a lawyer.

Jack, you are messing with the FRA's ATA. Family Rights Activist's Anti-Thompson-Administration. My own little group. We will get you Tommy. We are determined to make you look like the little twit that you are. We are serious gamers, and we will ruin your credibility.
If not, then we know for sure your part of the Skull and Bones secret society. No wonder you faked good old Clinton.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


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