Game Politics ([info]gamepolitics) wrote,
@ 2006-08-24 05:29:00
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Entry tags:bully, rockstar, violence

Bully Info Starting to Flow

It's the most vilified game that no one has ever seen.

We're talking about Bully, of course, Rockstar's controversial title scheduled for October 17th release. As we edge closer to the game's launch, Rockstar is beginning to pull the curtain back a bit.

A new Bully trailer showed up on YouTube yesterday and logged over 300,000 viewings.

The brand-new edition of Game Informer has a cover story on Bully, with some revealing insights. For example, Rockstar producer Devin Winterbottom tells GI, "It's not Grand Theft Auto in a school, which is really the most baseline thing people think about it."

As explained by the magazine preview, there are five main social groups at Bulworth Academy, where the game takes place. Jocks, Greasers, Nerds, Preps and Bullies make up the school population. The level of violence in the game has been one of the main questions during the Bully controversy. From the GI article:

"The fighting, while light in tone, can get fairly violent as you can use found items like garbage can lids and baseball bats. However, Rockstar Vancouver has implemented steps to mitigate the violence to some degree. More damaging weapons like the bats degrade quickly, after three to five hits, preventing you from walking around beating everyone in sight. Also, if the player decides to hit a girl or smaller child, the prefects will quickly swarm and take you down. In this way, Rockstar - usually known for pulling no punches - seems to be trying to create an organic system of consequences..."




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[info]hedgeworth
2006-08-24 10:17 am UTC (link)
To be honest, regardless of any controversy.... this game just doesn't look that interesting to me.

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[info]johnnytaco
2006-08-24 11:18 am UTC (link)
You too?

River City Ransom FTW.

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(no subject) - [info]chuma, 2006-08-24 11:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]scazza, 2006-08-24 12:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackmesaman, 2006-08-24 05:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nightwng2000, 2006-08-24 12:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gatz111085, 2006-08-24 02:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]terminator44, 2006-08-24 07:26 pm UTC
I think it's a great concept
[info]yukimurasanada
2006-08-24 10:34 am UTC (link)
But I'll be honest in saying it's not my style of game. I'll still get it just to Spite jack.

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[info]dagrak
2006-08-24 10:37 am UTC (link)
The fighting, while light in tone, can get fairly violent as you can use found items like garbage can lids and baseball bats

Well crap...looks like Rockstar is about to unload yet another nuke on the gaming industry, I mean kids hitting others with bats?! I think a line may have just been crossed there, and the trailers made it look so hopeful in that all the "violence" was tongue in cheek. I guarantee you the next time anyone under 18 launches a bat attack it will be all over the news as "Bully inspires kids to violence"...even if said bat attack happened during a baseball game.

I still think that if the critics hadn't jumped all over it that Bully would turn out to be a failure, I mean just look at the graphics and how dated they are not to mention the concept isn't exactly something that people will be climbing over each other to play. The only reason to get it now is because people like Jack Thompson says you shouldn't.

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[info]finaleve
2006-08-24 10:48 am UTC (link)
The game still looks promising.

I mean, it's a reminiscance of GTA, where as its a similar formular but instead, without huge car chases and shoot outs and things like that.
Just a simple school ground and things that could happen inside the school. Brilliant concept really.

The organic consequence, I think it was basically pulled already. I mean, in GTA, you do something bad, you get a star. The cops start chasing you. That's the organics of how GTA worked, but I guess they formulated on that idea and, when you attack a kid who's part of some group or school click, their friends come to kick your ass.

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[info]rozroz
2006-08-24 11:07 am UTC (link)
I wonder if these "prefects" will present a little more challenge than GTA series's halfhearted police force? You could say that the police come after you in GTA when you commit a crime openly, but they never really present anything more than a minor inconvenience.

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[info]barfo
2006-08-24 04:59 pm UTC (link)
"the police come after you in GTA when you commit a crime openly, but they never really present anything more than a minor inconvenience."

Now while this statement is totaly fair to say at a one- or two-star level, at about 3 or 4 stars of wanted rating it starts to get difficult to do most of the missions, and at 5 or 6 stars its a challenge to do anything other than just work on avoiding getting caught long enough to drop the wanted rating down with police bribes. Its all about the tuning, so although the prefect system sounds basically similar to the the cop system from GTA, if as soon as you commit an exceptional infraction (hitting teacher or a younger kid) the prefects descend upon you with the equivalent of a 5-star or worse pursuit, then it would be a strong deterrent against any of that activity for those wishing to make progress in the game proper.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]hayabusa75, 2006-08-24 07:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rozroz, 2006-08-24 10:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gabrielcelesta, 2006-08-25 01:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]terminator44, 2006-08-25 10:39 am UTC
The more info that comes out....
[info]beardoggx
2006-08-24 11:15 am UTC (link)
...the more foolish it makes the Metropolitian Moron of Miami look for running his mouth about the game before any REAL information was released.

I think that Bully will be a success.

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Re: The more info that comes out....
[info]hayabusa75
2006-08-24 07:29 pm UTC (link)
Beardogg...Mega Man??? What happened to Kristen Bell??? ;)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: The more info that comes out.... - [info]beardoggx, 2006-08-25 02:01 am UTC
Any multi?
[info]blitzfitness
2006-08-24 11:37 am UTC (link)
After reading those different cliches, I can imagine some pretty interesting multiplayer components to this game.

Also, if this game is any representation of modern day schools, the main character may need to hit females in defense more than anything. I've seen guys fight and I could stand and watch, but when girls fight....let's just say they scare me. :)

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[info]eusisnaphtali
2006-08-24 11:37 am UTC (link)
It /is/ an interesting concept, but I don't have much faith it will be pulled off well. Though that might just be a gut reaction from the graphical quality of the game and the last few times a game's garnered this much attention outside of GTA.

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[info]rozroz
2006-08-24 10:46 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I'm kind of hoping it'll look a little nicer when it's actually on shelves. (I'm pretty sure it will, but who knows?) I'm also hoping that they're not going to have lackluster everything just so that they can appease the people who keep harassing them about their games. Chances are, the people who are constantly bugging them to change aspects aren't even their audience in the first place - People who have determined or will determine that they want the game will probably not be deterred because Old Man Thompson said that it's bad. I can appreciate that they seem to be trying to piss off as few people as possible (Read: Receive as few blames/lawsuits from people who can't take responsibility for their own actions), but if it means completely tearing the game apart from what was originally intended to a degree that they're so busy editing out and replacing potentially offensive material that they can't sharpen things up and improve what they've got already, what's the point in even finishing it? No matter what they do, it probably just won't be tame enough for some people, so I'm not even quite sure why Rockstar seem to be going along so much with the people going "Oh noes violence! Badness! Corrupting the youth! Someone think of the children!" Seems like a big waste of time to me.

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[info]ss_ebonclaw
2006-08-24 11:45 am UTC (link)
After watching the youtube trailer, I have to say it looks like they made a point to dumb it down, graphics wise. This is supposed to be a late-gen PS2 game? Surely they can't be cutting THAT many design corners, can they?

A trashbin game from R*. Seems almost like a What If: game, where all the students of Hogwarts lose their ability to use magic and become angsty, disgruntled kids. Complete with under-performing visuals.

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[info]father_time89
2006-08-24 08:17 pm UTC (link)
you know you might be right, if this game does well AND gets rated well they MIGHT make a next-gen sequel.

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Maybe PC should intervene....
[info]nightwng2000
2006-08-24 12:20 pm UTC (link)
I teach my son not to hit ANYONE, no matter WHO they are, and no one has the right to hit him.

Yet society dictates that boys/men are expendable. Interestingly enough, in general, boys are protected under the "children" title in some cases. Such as when "women and children" are referred to but men excluded. Other times, it's implied that boys are evil by nature and that only females are worth protecting. But, even though boys are protected using the "children" title from time to time, once they turn 18 (sometimes even before that), they all of a sudden become "men" and therefore expendable.

So, in a sense, Rockstar, along with society, has said, it's wrong for males to hit females, but it's ok for females to hit females, females to hit males, and males to hit males.

Perhaps I'm egged on by the implications of PC from the "cowboys and indians" article. But it seems to me that society should be looking at it as (and this includes in the real world, not just the fictional one of games, movies, books, etc) "violence is wrong, no matter who the victim is and no matter who the attacker is". Either that or drop the pretense and bigotry and label violence a "free for all, no matter who the attackers/victims are". There should be no "it's ok if this group is a victim but wrong if this group is a victim". Violence, in the real world most importantly, should be wrong irregardless.

nightwng2000

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Maybe PC should intervene....
[info]zippydsmlee
2006-08-26 01:05 am UTC (link)
Socity is screwed up and yet they love to point fingers in thier glass house..its rather......dishaerting....soemtiems I wonder what reaility we live in 0_o

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[info]typhoid
2006-08-24 12:54 pm UTC (link)
"Also, if the player decides to hit a girl or smaller child, the prefects will quickly swarm and take you down"

Oh my gosh no we can't be hitting girls!

Jeez. Girls can be bullies too.

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[info]grls_r_gamers_2
2006-08-24 05:07 pm UTC (link)
"Girls can be bullies too."

True dat. But the thing is, girls tend to attack verbally and emotionally while boys tend to attack physically. Unfortunately, a large majority of females are pissy little wusses. You know, the ones that freak over seeing a mouse or a bug? That's why society looks down on hitting a girl more than hitting a boy. Because apparently we can't defend ourselves.

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(no subject) - [info]thefremen, 2006-08-24 06:46 pm UTC

[info]aresef
2006-08-24 01:01 pm UTC (link)
GTA had organic consequences too, which is what our friend Jacko always overlooks. You don't get rewarded for mass murder--you get wanted stars, and then you have to outrun the fuzz.

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[info]grls_r_gamers_2
2006-08-24 05:08 pm UTC (link)
Maybe he thought that the stars were a reward.

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(no subject) - [info]cactusjack1999, 2006-08-24 06:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]terminator44, 2006-08-24 07:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cactusjack1999, 2006-08-24 09:57 pm UTC
Sorry, but I have to correct you there a little. - [info]gabrielcelesta, 2006-08-25 02:04 am UTC
A question for Americans...
[info]foxieboi
2006-08-24 01:30 pm UTC (link)
Is there REALLY the whole "Jocks, Greasers, Nerds, Preps, and Bullies" social circles going on in US schools?

Seems so strange to me, an Australian.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: A question for Americans...
[info]barfo
2006-08-24 05:07 pm UTC (link)
Its exagerrated, but its the same thing as the inclusiong of italian, black, hispanic, colombian, chinese, japanese gangs and mafia in the GTA games. IE they are taking an element of real life and then distorting it through a magnifying glass in order to populate a fictional universe.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: A question for Americans... - [info]grls_r_gamers_2, 2006-08-24 05:09 pm UTC
Re: A question for Americans... - [info]stufff, 2006-08-24 06:36 pm UTC
additional high school social groups (as per "Ferris Bueller's Day Off") - [info]gamepolitics, 2006-08-24 06:42 pm UTC
Re: A question for Americans... - [info]hayabusa75, 2006-08-24 07:37 pm UTC
Re: A question for Americans... - [info]jabrwock, 2006-08-24 08:11 pm UTC
Re: A question for Americans... - [info]sageoflightning, 2006-08-24 11:43 pm UTC
Jack will brag no matter what
[info]darfox8
2006-08-24 01:35 pm UTC (link)
If the game does turn out to be completely harmless then he'll claim all his protesting made it that way.

Also the bat breaking thing just seems like a smart thing to balance the gameplay it might not all be to censor some violence.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Jack will brag no matter what
[info]phoenixzero
2006-08-24 06:52 pm UTC (link)
Pretty much, that's what I was saying the day the first trailer came out, then Jack was on G4 and pretty much said just that, despite the fact that the crap he was claiming was never true in the first place.

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[info]semperar
2006-08-24 01:59 pm UTC (link)
I forgot there were girls in this game. Ugh. Its sensible that they're there and you'll be punished for being violent, but you know there's gonna be whining just because the game offers the CHANCE.

What you have to remember is that a video game is only politically correct if you are exclusively violent towards white males. Dabble in anything else and you're clearly promoting hate.

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[info]father_time89
2006-08-24 08:21 pm UTC (link)
if they start complaining about violence against girls then I have the perfect counter-point. Tekken, Soul Calibur and super smash brothers all allow you to beat up girls and yet nobody has ever complained about any of those games.

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[info]baldynomad
2006-08-24 02:10 pm UTC (link)
The game looks even more interesting to me. After reading the article in GI, I see that Rock* is taking another route to the approach in games. This veers away from the company becoming a one note operation (well, I did like Max Payne).
More then likley, the controversy created by would-be critics long before the launch of Bully will help sales, even if Bully turns out to be a mediocre game.

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[info]chronopaladin
2006-08-24 02:35 pm UTC (link)
Yeah...the consequence system. With all the ranting about senseless violence, the in-game consequences are an important counter-argument that no critic seems to take seriously. If anything, that's the reason why I played through San Andreas as a goody-two-shoes (Well...as much as one can be in such a game). It's also why I raise an eyebrow when people claim you get "points" for mass-murder. In most cases, kill too many people and they hit back with force, leading to a loss of "points." And I'm a smart enough gamer rat to know not to touch that electrocution knob when I'm otherwise more often rewarded for good behaviour.

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[info]brucenstein
2006-08-24 02:50 pm UTC (link)
If you can't walk around beating children with a bat then why even bother playing the game? *sigh*

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[info]residentlune
2006-08-24 03:17 pm UTC (link)
Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I actually think this may be the game that makes me get my very first Rockstar-made media. I actually like the throwback to the era of Doo-Whop Shop age greasers and comically stereotypical cliques.

The violence, while it may come off as harsh, still looks like it'll be more comical than anything else, largely due to the fact that the graphics themselves are not current cutting edge realistic, and of course the lack of blood and other graphic details involved in said violence.

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[info]satrugha
2006-08-24 03:24 pm UTC (link)
let's hope rockstar lives up to it's promises of a system of consequences, even if it's not enough to appease crazies like jack thompson or the parent brigade (whatever their name's supposed to be). having a gta in school might be disasterous o_o

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[info]vebelfetzer
2006-08-25 12:21 am UTC (link)
Disastrous? How?

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(no subject) - [info]satrugha, 2006-08-25 07:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]magdaleneveen, 2006-08-26 02:07 am UTC
Getting tamer by the day...
[info]monte924
2006-08-24 03:37 pm UTC (link)
The more information Rockstar releases about Bully the more tame it appears to be. Frist we are told that it will not have deadly weapons like guns, then we are told that there will not even be blood, and now we're told that there will be swift punishment for attacking girls and little kids and more dangerous weapons have very limited use. Heh, I'm willing to bet that love in the game probably won't go beyond making out.

Not only that, but the trailers point towards a game that's much more meant for humor than being serious, like GTA. The game seems like it's gonna exploit the common social stereotypes of the social groups; i chuckled at some of the lines from those nerds. Not to mention the games using so many cliche' schoolyard stuff like slingshots, bombing the toliets, swirly's, wegies, and even "kick me" signs. I wouldn't know, but i don't think bullies even actually use most of that stuff in this day and age.

ya, if this was a trailer for a movie, it would easily get a PG-13 rating, perhaps even a PG rating. So far, with light tone violence, a humorous approach to the game, and prossibly(my guess) little to no sexual stuff, it looks to me like Bully will pass for a "T" rating.

y'know, i kinda wonder... The reason Bully is under so much fire is because of the bullying angle (that and the fact that Rockstar made it). I really wonder if Bully would have come under as much fire if it simply been title something else, like Bullsworth Academy. I kinda think that at the very least, poeple wouldn't jump on it as quick, and atleast wait for the trailers before blasting it (not jack ofcourse). I would definatly bet that if someone other than rockstar was making it, there would definatly be much less heat.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Getting tamer by the day...
[info]braindead1
2006-08-24 09:06 pm UTC (link)
I'd rather play it if it were titled "Revenge of the Nerds"

or "The Nerd Uprising: A tale of geekiness gone amock". You could like...use...nerd...powers...

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]jabrwock
2006-08-24 03:54 pm UTC (link)
"It's not Grand Theft Auto in a school, which is really the most baseline thing people think about it."

Try convincing the people who though R* Table Tennis would have a "Hot Coffee" mode hidden in it...

"In this way, Rockstar - usually known for pulling no punches - seems to be trying to create an organic system of consequences..."

Shooting police officers in GTA had some consequences too (get swarmed by more cops, swat, fbi, army). Didn't stop people going around calling it a cop-killing simulator...

"More damaging weapons like the bats degrade quickly, after three to five hits, preventing you from walking around beating everyone in sight."

Hopefully they'll actually react to you carrying a weapon now? That always bugged me about GTA, that you could walk down a busy street with an AK, and no-one but the person you were aiming at would react.

At least in Postal they'd avoid you (or panic) & fetch the cops if you ran around with a weapon in your hand...

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[info]ianc14
2006-08-24 04:45 pm UTC (link)
Try convincing the people who though R* Table Tennis would have a "Hot Coffee" mode hidden in it...
Did people seriously think that?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]grls_r_gamers_2, 2006-08-24 05:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]thefremen, 2006-08-24 06:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hayabusa75, 2006-08-24 07:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gamepolitics, 2006-08-24 08:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]thefremen, 2006-08-24 09:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]illspirit, 2006-08-24 08:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]father_time89, 2006-08-24 08:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]terminator44, 2006-08-24 10:12 pm UTC

[info]beacon80
2006-08-24 04:27 pm UTC (link)
I can't wait for this game to come out. Why, you ask? Because the sooner it comes out, the sooner people will stop talking about it. I don't think I'm going to play Bully at all. Not only doesn't it really appeal to me to begin with, but I'm completely sick of hearing about it.
I realize, of course, that the release of the game isn't the point where people will stop talking about it. I'm sure Thompson will be bringing it up as a "Columbine Simulator" (despite the lack of guns) for years to come. But it's release is an important milestone, and I suspect a few weeks after that, the game will be making the headlines on a much less regular basis.

On another note, I do agree that the inclusion of "girls" strikes me as a bit odd these days. Since, as far as I understand it, you're something of an anti-bully, I would have suspected something more along the lines of being punished for attacking any harmless student, regardless of gender.

(Reply to this)

On the organic consequence system...
[info]boffo97
2006-08-24 04:31 pm UTC (link)
I really wouldn't put it past the usual complainers to blame RockStar for standard infinite health cheat codes, whether in-game or through an Action Replay Max or somesuch for all intents and purposes making it so you can attack a girl or a smaller child and live.

After all, Hot Coffee was inaccessible with a mod or AR Max, but that was still "their fault".

(Reply to this)


[info]kurisu7885
2006-08-24 04:45 pm UTC (link)
Ok, so the graphics aren't top notch, San Andreas' graphics weren't great either, but consider the game's size they were pretty good.

As for Thompson, he'll problably sue if the game doesn't get an M rating.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]ianc14
2006-08-24 06:25 pm UTC (link)
As for Thompson, he'll problably sue if the game doesn't get an M rating.
That much is obvious!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kurisu7885, 2006-08-25 12:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]thefremen, 2006-08-24 06:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hayabusa75, 2006-08-24 07:51 pm UTC

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