gamepolitics: G4 Video of Bully / Game Violence Debate

Game Politics (

gamepolitics) wrote,
@ 2006-08-11 07:04:00

Entry tags:

adam sessler, bully, frank friedler, g4, game violence, jack thompson

G4 Video of Bully / Game Violence Debate

Too short, too much talking over one another, not enough shaving...

That was GP's take on yesterday's G4 game violence wrestling match between Adam Sessler, Mark Friedler and Jack Thompson.

But make your own judgment. Joystiq has the video.

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(180 comments) - (Post a new comment)

lotharhex
2006-08-11 11:21 am UTC (link)

Now is it me, or was the only sane interviewee Mark Friedler from Game Daily? Jack keeps trying to convince people that the issue they're talking about and the one he was invietd to discuss isn't the issue at all and then ends up shouting at the host at the end to have his say because he hasn't gotten to speak the most. Adam Sessler meanwhile just keeps insulting Jack, then displays his own ignorance by saying the UK doesn;t have a first amendment equivalent. Though to be fair Jack kept interrupting him when he said this and I can't understand what's being said so he might have said we do but it isn't a "first amendment" as the US knows it.

Friedler on the other hands keeps cool, puts his point forward and actually supports Jack's right to his opinion if not the matter he goes about esposusing it.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

lotharhex
2006-08-11 11:37 am UTC (link)

Oh and before anyone says, yes I know my country doesn't have a "Constitution" or "First Amendment" as known in the US, but we've had laws protecting freedom of speech for hundreds of years. Currently and Domestically, we're protected under the Human Rights Act 1998, which basically bunged a load of these laws together along with a myriad of other Human Rights protection. We're also covered by Article 10 of the European Convention due to being members of the European Union.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Well, to correct you -

yukimurasanada, 2006-08-11 12:27 pm UTC

Re: Well, to correct you -

lotharhex, 2006-08-11 01:45 pm UTC

Re: Well, to correct you -

yukimurasanada, 2006-08-11 01:57 pm UTC

Re: Well, to correct you -

lotharhex, 2006-08-11 03:04 pm UTC

Here's how it works -

caspervonb, 2006-08-11 02:39 pm UTC

Re: Here's how it works -

lotharhex, 2006-08-11 02:52 pm UTC

Re: Here's how it works -

caspervonb, 2006-08-11 03:58 pm UTC

Re: Here's how it works -

lotharhex, 2006-08-11 04:04 pm UTC

Re: Here's how it works -

lotharhex, 2006-08-11 04:06 pm UTC

Re: Well, to correct you -

shadedspriter, 2006-08-12 03:38 am UTC

(no subject) -

xwaix, 2006-08-11 12:33 pm UTC

(no subject) -

electrodruid, 2006-08-11 01:08 pm UTC

(no subject) -

lotharhex, 2006-08-11 01:38 pm UTC

from yourrights.org.uk -

o_rangekrush, 2006-08-11 01:51 pm UTC

(no subject) -

gfox25, 2006-08-11 01:20 pm UTC

(no subject) -

lotharhex, 2006-08-11 01:47 pm UTC

(no subject) -

baldynomad, 2006-08-11 01:23 pm UTC

in the same room... -

sir_bissel, 2006-08-11 03:27 pm UTC

Re: in the same room... -

thecardinal, 2006-08-11 03:58 pm UTC

(no subject) -

jesdk, 2006-08-11 04:03 pm UTC

I believe Sessler was trying to differenciate -

jabrwock, 2006-08-11 04:04 pm UTC

(no subject) -

jamesweis, 2006-08-11 11:44 pm UTC

majestic_12_x
2006-08-11 11:35 am UTC (link)

The laws of the United Kingdom can be created and enforced by Parliament. I wikied that following Jack's statement, because I know for damn sure that laws differ across the pond.

I agree with what you said lotharhex, somebody other than Sessler needs to debate with Thompson. It seems like Thompson keeps his cool when the other person is ranting and raving, and he seems to unravel when the other person stands their ground.

I still find most of his arguement ridiculous due to the fact that he seems to disavow any knowledge of his failed attempts (repeatedly) to pass unconstitutional laws, believes that government is responsible for parenting, and that he knows more about "Bully" than Take-Star.....I mean Rockstar and Take-Two.

I should consider filing my own lawsuit against Mr. Thompson after I shatter my clavicle trying to play pro football in accordance with his inane logic that games can "train" you do anything. Like I said, we'd all be mass murderers if his logic made any sense, but thanks to logic and reasoning we aren't.

(Reply to this)

	Worthless dog_welder 2006-08-11 11:42 am UTC (link)
	I figured this would be a completely and utterly worthless encounter. Neither side was allowed to present a decent case. G4 is an incompetent network and Attack of the Show is rubbish. (Reply to this)

	Still, it served some use. startropics 2006-08-11 12:19 pm UTC (link)
	Thompson's career's really in the toilet if his only venue these days is an outlet that he can't help but slander. The irony is thick. (Reply to this)

	jaykaos 2006-08-11 12:25 pm UTC (link)
	Kevin? Kevin? KEVIN! (Reply to this) (Thread)

	cryptic_persona 2006-08-11 01:46 pm UTC (link)
	You summed it up perfectly. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	zynth 2006-08-11 12:59 pm UTC (link)
	Worst debate ever. (Reply to this)

	you_said_what 2006-08-11 01:01 pm UTC (link)
	pointless 7 minute long jibber jabber (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Jibber Jabber finaldelerium 2006-08-14 12:57 am UTC (link)
	Good use of jibber jabber. Tis a phrase we dont see used enough these days (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Jibber Jabber -

gamepolitics, 2006-08-14 01:09 am UTC

Re: Jibber Jabber -

finaldelerium, 2006-08-14 04:03 am UTC

	ailes_du_soleil 2006-08-11 01:25 pm UTC (link)
	See how Kevin ignores him at the end. Yeah, that's what this planet needs to do to him. How about he stick to retailers not selling M rated games to kids? Hmm? How about, as we've said a thousand times, parents police their childrens games. (Reply to this)

Jeez

yukimurasanada
2006-08-11 01:34 pm UTC (link)

You know, for the first time Jack is on a show where he doesn't get free reign and you all complain. I swear. Adam gets in there, blows jacks argument apart, and you all act like Sessler did something wrong. Yes, he's verbose and loud, but he's also very passionate and did a great job of making jack look like an idoit.

So take it for what it is. And besides, I just love the irony of it all. Jack once called G4 "A network for morons." Well, look how the mighty have fallen.

So, cheer up, chill out, and enjoy it. Jacks time is nearly at an end. When his bill in LA fails, we win!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Jeez locke_cole 2006-08-11 01:42 pm UTC (link)
	Thank you, I'm glad someone said it. I thought I was alone in thinking Adam did a good job. They SHOULD have dedicated the whole show to the debate. They gave no one enough time to really argue it well so everyone was trying to get their point in because there was only 7 minutes put aside for the debate. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Jeez -

gamepolitics, 2006-08-11 01:54 pm UTC

Re: Jeez -

lotharhex, 2006-08-11 01:59 pm UTC

Re: Jeez -

jessi_b, 2006-08-11 11:41 pm UTC

Re: Jeez -

muhammed, 2006-08-11 02:27 pm UTC

Miami Jack walking -

sir_bissel, 2006-08-11 03:30 pm UTC

Re: Jeez -

beardoggx, 2006-08-12 02:04 am UTC

Re: Jeez -

beardoggx, 2006-08-12 02:33 am UTC

Re: Jeez -

gamepolitics, 2006-08-12 11:03 am UTC

Re: Jeez -

thefremen, 2006-08-12 02:31 am UTC

Re: Jeez -

verus_vir, 2006-08-12 10:08 am UTC

	hornsofvalmar 2006-08-11 01:46 pm UTC (link)
	Can someone please tell me how playing Doom with a keyboard and mouse equals training to shoot a real life gun? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	bane_keldare 2006-08-11 02:05 pm UTC (link)
	Those are the default controls of the school-shooting robots. ;) (Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) -

locke_cole, 2006-08-11 02:08 pm UTC

(no subject) -

chaos_wraith, 2006-08-11 07:04 pm UTC

(no subject) -

sir_bissel, 2006-08-11 03:31 pm UTC

(no subject) -

typhoid, 2006-08-11 03:36 pm UTC

(no subject) -

finaleve, 2006-08-12 01:25 am UTC

introvert
2006-08-11 02:06 pm UTC (link)

This interview was frustrating on several levels:

A) They should have given it more time, maybe half the show (at least)

B) They should have had better panelists. The guy from GameDaily wasn't engaging enough, and Adam Sessler, though funny, wasn't educated enough about the issues at hand. If I was a producer for G4, and had the ability to get anyone I wanted, I would have put Will Wright and, I dunno... maybe Jason Rubin in there with him.

C) They should have let Thompson talk more. He's the sort of guy who will hang himself if you give him enough rope, and he was obviously well on his way by saying that parental responsibility wasn't an issue.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

cryptic_persona
2006-08-11 02:43 pm UTC (link)

A) Agreed

B) They should have just got people who would throw his words back at him cuz as you said...

C)... Thompson should have spoke more and they could have just attacked whatever it was he had to say because face it, we all know this guys arguments don't make logical sense.

Just to add something. If I wasn't a semi gamer and watched this I would be more inclined to agree with those who held my personal beliefs (the beliefs of a nongamer). Hence they did not engage anyone who may be on the borderlines of deciding if gameing is truly damaging, or maybe I'm just asking for too much.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) -

sir_bissel, 2006-08-11 03:33 pm UTC

(no subject) -

cryptic_persona, 2006-08-11 04:03 pm UTC

(no subject) -

froggersrevenge, 2006-08-13 02:37 am UTC

rhanlav
2006-08-11 03:15 pm UTC (link)

Well, now that I've seen the video, I have to say... I'm glad I don't pay for G4 now. Its nice to see that the show was a nice waste of about 9 minutes of my life. And yes, its the parents who need to be more active in whats going on with their children and not just going "Oh the humanity", or something.

So in summation, "I'm Jack Thompson, I'm a lawyer and I'm here to flaunt my resume, and plus I'll also talk over people." Is it bad I'm having flashbacks of when he was able to post here?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	gamepolitics 2006-08-11 03:43 pm UTC (link)
	i'll say this, we've had a lot more than usual of Miami Jack this week due to the Louisiana mess as well as this thing. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	stufff 2006-08-11 03:26 pm UTC (link)
	Adam Sessler blames violence on schools on the poor education system and lack of health care. He sounds like a commie. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	terminator44 2006-08-11 04:09 pm UTC (link)
	Stufff, he and Webb ARE commies. Didn't you see the Communism-themed X-Play episode? (Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) -

grimm24, 2006-08-11 07:39 pm UTC

(no subject) -

zippydsmlee, 2006-08-11 10:06 pm UTC

(Deleted post)

	Re: Hey, wait.. gamepolitics 2006-08-11 03:47 pm UTC (link)
	i noted that too. he was careful to not say that it was his "exclusive," just that they were "exclusive." Although the way it was phrased certainly didn't dissuade you of the notion that they were his exclusive if you took it that way. As I recall he got them from some game site in the UK last year. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Hey, wait.. -

stufff, 2006-08-11 03:55 pm UTC

Re: Hey, wait.. -

brendanthejedi, 2006-08-11 04:43 pm UTC

Re: Hey, wait.. -

stufff, 2006-08-12 01:44 am UTC

Re: Hey, wait.. -

verus_vir, 2006-08-12 10:14 am UTC

Re: Hey, wait.. -

heimdal00, 2006-08-15 07:58 am UTC

Re: Hey, wait.. -

jabrwock, 2006-08-11 04:19 pm UTC

kurisu7885
2006-08-11 03:52 pm UTC (link)

Odds are, since Thompson got this one appearance on G4, he's goign to try to be on as much as possible. And I agree, they should jsut up it and devote an entire show to this debate. As for it gettig noff topic, that was apaprently Thompson's goal in the beginning, to keep skirting issues and make sure it got nowhere. I do give credit to Adam for forcefeeding Thompson his own medicine.

(Reply to this)

GP Nails it on the head...

rozroz
2006-08-11 04:05 pm UTC (link)

That was pretty much my opinion of the matter. Too short, Adam seemed nervous/angry as heck and often tripped over his words right off the bat. Not that I particularly blame him, since it was Thompson who he was primarily addressing and judging from most hate-mail and opinions that I hear/read about, not too many people would take the opportunity to speak to him without immediately going straight for the kill. What I'm saying is that I'm certain that many people who are gaming enthusiasts would probably try to use up all their verbal ammo at the start. It's a little hard to address such a person that is considered a villain by many without going all out on them.

It was nice to see the more intelligent, passionate 'real' gamer side of Adam rather than the script-tacular X-Play Adam.

Friedler, as a few people have said already, won in terms of presentation. If I were some clueless person who wandered in on someone watching this and looked on with interest, I would have sided with that guy. He was very calm and moderate and didn't start shouting or insulting anyone (And his opinions, the few that he presented, were quite good.).

It would have been better if it were longer and ended with someone getting a chair smashed over their head. :)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: GP Nails it on the head...

dog_welder
2006-08-11 04:24 pm UTC (link)

I thought Sessler came across as a rabid, coked-out monkey throwing strawman retorts. He was an embarrassment to our position.

The sad thing is, if I'd been a "normal" person who didn't read Game Politics every day and had NO KNOWLEDGE of this subject, Jack would have come across looking great. I hate to say that, but it's true.

The best way to deal with Jack is to educate yourself on his deceptions and usual talking points ahead of the debate, and then calmly pick them apart with actual facts.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: GP Nails it on the head... -

terminator44, 2006-08-11 10:29 pm UTC

graphemes
2006-08-11 04:06 pm UTC (link)

That was the worst debate ever. We, as gamers, needed and DESERVED more than 8 minutes of debate on a subject that affects many of us deeply.

It is frustrating when JT keeps interrupting people just to say things like "that's not the point" yet never tell us exactly what the point was.

The video game industry has more money than God. I expected real people to debate against him. Mark had some valid points, but did not force them out clearly enough. Adam Sessler, while funny, is not exactly Kennedy-Nixon debate material.

Someone once said, "Good debaters can say: Here's your answer. Here's my answer. Great debaters can step back and look at the big picture and figure out how arguments interrelate and explain what that means."

None of the three I witnessed yesterday on G4 falls into this category.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

jessi_b
2006-08-11 11:52 pm UTC (link)

I disagree, but I definitely see where you're coming from. I think we would've seen a better Sessler and a more vocal Mark if the segment was longer (and maybe a more irate Jack). I don't think he was bad, though - in fact, I think Sessler did pretty well.

But you're absolutely right in the sense that there needs to be other people debating Jack. Maybe Patricia Vance and Doug Lowenstein should be in a big debate with Thompson - anyone have any other suggestions? (Maybe some of the Editorial staff from Electronic Gaming monthly or a psychologist who has conducted studies on the subject?)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

finaleve
2006-08-11 04:08 pm UTC (link)

Jck focuses on his world. The arragance of him makes him seem intimidating. Only when arguments are modded (in in G4, where Kevin basically ignored JT's "Im a parent too" response) are when JT's at a fault.

Jack just likes making things up to win their story...i swear I've heard of this.
"Mommy said I can go out to play dad (Even though she said no and I just want to go out and play to have my way)."
Ah, doesn't that bring back some memories...

(Reply to this)

brendanthejedi
2006-08-11 04:09 pm UTC (link)

Kevin: And Jack have spend any time with bully, have you seen the game played at all?

Thompson: No really nobody has except for people Rockstar and Take 2 want them to see.

So thats funny. Didn't Jack at one point said he was "at E3 and saw a closed door showing"?

I sort of actually liked Adam in that interview in his points. While did interupt Thompson a lot, I couldn't imagaine myself doing any different.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	gamepolitics 2006-08-11 04:12 pm UTC (link)
	he never said that... (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) -

jabrwock, 2006-08-11 04:16 pm UTC

(no subject) -

gamepolitics, 2006-08-11 04:19 pm UTC

(no subject) -

brendanthejedi, 2006-08-11 04:22 pm UTC

(no subject) -

jabrwock, 2006-08-11 04:26 pm UTC

If I recall... -

grombar, 2006-08-11 04:36 pm UTC

Re: If I recall... -

gamepolitics, 2006-08-11 07:48 pm UTC

Re: If I recall... -

phoenixzero, 2006-08-11 11:03 pm UTC

(no subject) -

brendanthejedi, 2006-08-11 04:17 pm UTC

Silly quotes... and dumb arguments

jabrwock
2006-08-11 04:12 pm UTC (link)

Jack (sarcastically): "So the solution is to make kids play more videogames?"

In response to Adam's rant about how video games make up an extremely small part of all the factors influencing kids bad behavior, including bad education, bad health, bad parents, bad society, etc.

I just about spewed my coffee when he said that. It was in my view the dumbest counter-argument of the show. Would it have hurt to acknowledge that games aren't the major factor?

Another silly moment was when Jack played dumb when Sessler queried why he believed that the game would cause instant violence the moment it was on shelves. It was as if Jack was incredulous that Sessler refused to judge the game before it was out. I actually chuckled when Sessler said "you actually believe this is some kind of virus that will infect you and turn you violent the instant you pick up the box? so what's wrong with letting it hit the shelves before judging it?"

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Silly quotes... and dumb arguments brendanthejedi 2006-08-11 04:26 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, Sessler put up a good argument. I can't see why people can't give that to him. Really he probably did most of us would if we got a chance to argue that bastard. (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Silly quotes... and dumb arguments -

semperar, 2006-08-11 04:41 pm UTC

Re: Silly quotes... and dumb arguments -

zero_beat_x, 2006-08-11 05:27 pm UTC

Re: Silly quotes... and dumb arguments -

jabrwock, 2006-08-11 08:04 pm UTC

Re: Silly quotes... and dumb arguments -

jesdk, 2006-08-11 07:26 pm UTC

Re: Silly quotes... and dumb arguments -

jabrwock, 2006-08-11 07:48 pm UTC

Re: Silly quotes... and dumb arguments -

jesdk, 2006-08-12 08:31 am UTC

Rockstar just released the trailer for Bully

jabrwock
2006-08-11 04:33 pm UTC (link)

They finally updated the website with more than just the logo and "coming soon". Now it's got a trailer, and screenshots.

New screens include the main character putting out a burning sign/scoreboard (?) with a fire extinguisher, an evil looking chemistry prof, a mean looking gym teacher, a fat young version of the Fonz along with fellow students (first screens of girls at the school) the smashing of a computer and window with a baseball bat, sneaking up on a night guard,

http://www.rockstargames.com/bully/

I like email announcement lists... ;)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Rockstar just released the trailer for Bully jessi_b 2006-08-11 11:54 pm UTC (link)
	...and now Rockstar will use Thompson as their new marketing tool. Excellent! XD (Reply to this) (Parent)

	attackgypsy 2006-08-11 04:46 pm UTC (link)
	Hey Dennis, Jack send any more emails about his appearance, good bad or indifferent? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	gamepolitics 2006-08-11 05:58 pm UTC (link)
	nah... just busted on me for busting on his four o'clock shadow... (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) -

cactusjack1999, 2006-08-11 06:08 pm UTC

(no subject) -

hayabusa75, 2006-08-11 07:49 pm UTC

	hehe cactusjack1999 2006-08-11 04:49 pm UTC (link)
	You know.... I'd love for this game to be just as it is... About a sickly boy that get's picked on at school. Have jack rant and rave about how bad it's gonna be and that society will crumble the instant it is released. Then have it turn out the game is a biographical look at Teddy Roosevelt. (Reply to this)

the1jeffy
2006-08-11 04:56 pm UTC (link)

uuugh. I want that 9 minutes back. Here it is in three lines:

1)Jack Thomspons is a moralist who believes he knows best for everyone.

2)Adam Sessler is overly excitable, making his arguments pointless, even though he does have good ones.

3)Mark Friedler makes the most sense, but fails to counter Thompson effectively.

The whole things smacks of grade school "Nuh Uh,"/"Yuh Huh" battles. I was waiting for the inevitable, "My dad can beat up your dad!"

And Jack, shave it or grow it bro. Half and Half is weak sauce.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

garthknight
2006-08-11 08:52 pm UTC (link)

word. The minute they introduced Sessler, I covered my eyes and shook--

lets throw an idiot in with a barking dog and see what happens!

The feed at the bottom with retarded messages about paris hilton and Kevin Federline killed it even further.

And even further than that are the reactions. I dont think a lot of viewers wanted a debate, just a segment where Jack can either make a fool out of himself or someone to PWN him, either way its good wanking material if they felt satisfied.

I appreciate AOTS for at least trying.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Typical TV

ace_of_sevens
2006-08-11 04:57 pm UTC (link)

This segment seemed to be composed of Jack Thompson going through his standard list of soundbites, Adam Sessler shouting, presumably because he needed attention and Mark Friedler barely getting to talk. No substantive debate went on. This is basically what television is these days. You get two minutes to yell abotu your position. No real points are made.

Jack Thompson was misrepresenting the APA's findings and several other things. No one rebutted him much though. mark made some points regarding the US legal system which were perfectly valid, btu I think the science is as much a valid issue as the legal principles.

Basically, no one has demonstrated any long-term causal link between video games and violent or criminal behavior. That APA study was about aggression. I'd think just from societal data that if there is a link, it must be very weak as game-playing is nearly universal among kids these days and violence has been trending downward for a long time. Other factors can only explain so much.

Even if such a link is found, unless it's quite strong (and there's no way it is) it would have to be compared to whatever benefits kids get from playing games and weighed against the alternatives. Jack is essentially arguing that because games get kids excited (which is essentially all that APA study covered) and a couple times a kid that played games shot some folks, we should ban them, at least from the youngsters. This makes no sense legally or scientifically.

(Reply to this)

(180 comments) - (Post a new comment)

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