gamepolitics: Could Bloodless Bully Receive a "T" Rating?

Game Politics (

gamepolitics) wrote,
@ 2006-08-09 05:00:00

Entry tags:

bully, esrb, ratings, rockstar, violence

Could Bloodless Bully Receive a "T" Rating?

According to Reuters, Rockstar will announce today that its controversial title Bully will launch in October.

Although the Reuters story does not specify a date, it is reporting that the game's main character will be a 15-year-old boy named Jimmy Hopkins. Weapons in the game will include baseball bats, stink bombs and bags of marbles.

Bully will feature animated violence, but no blood or deaths, and has not yet been rated by the ESRB.

GP: The lack of blood and death would generally be indicative of a "T" (13 and older) rating, rather than an "M" (17 and older). After all of the controversy surrounding this game, wouldn't that be an interesting development? Of course we don't know much about the rest of the game's content. Could "swirlies" be considered a form of torture, for example? Such content might earn Bully an "M".

"Finally 'Bully' can speak for itself," Rockstar spokesman Rodney Walker said. "People can look at the game and see what it is and what it's not... We think the school environment is a universal experience that so many people relate to."

UPDATE: Kotaku editor Brian Crecente has much more in the Rocky Mountain News.

(Post a new comment)

	Columbine simulator, my ass. beardoggx 2006-08-09 11:52 am UTC (link)
	Since there's no blood, deaths, or apparently guns for that matter, not only is this NOT a "Columbine simulator" as the Metropolitian Moron of Miami claimed for months, it will be most likely be rated T. Sure makes the Miami-Dade County School Board look completely stupid for passing a resoultion over the game before any details of it became public, doesn't it? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Columbine simulator, my ass. yukimurasanada 2006-08-09 12:45 pm UTC (link)
	Damn Straight. Boy, woudl I love to hear jacks commentary about this. He must be writing up all kinda threats to the ESRB right now. Demanding the game be AO! Such a fool. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: Columbine simulator, my ass. muhammed 2006-08-09 01:26 pm UTC (link)
	Oh you just know he's gonna claim that it was "pressure" he put on them that resulted in this. Even though nobody knew anything more than the premise of the game during its development. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: Columbine simulator, my ass. duncan_922 2006-08-09 01:44 pm UTC (link)
	I can just hear him now saying... "I demand that you put blood and gore on that game Rockstar... How dare you make a mockery of my crusade and take away my whinning rights!" (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Columbine simulator, my ass.

dutch_gamer
2006-08-09 03:19 pm UTC (link)

Eventhough the game will not contain blood, deaths and apparently guns, how big is the chance that the politicians will again make this a big issue when it gets a T rating? From what we know now this game has a good chance to be rated T. But the politicians will probably see this as yet another failure of ESRB and will increase their pressure on the organization. There is a big chance they will use this as yet another example why games should be regulated to protect the children.

Right now the American politicians are trying to dictate what is and what isn't suitable for minors. I hope that some day we will get a definate ruling from the Supreme Court on the matter of videogames. Until that time every controversial game that receives a T rating will be open for attacks.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: Columbine simulator, my ass. kincyr 2006-08-09 04:09 pm UTC (link)
	everyone knows guns aren't involved in bullying, otherwise American public schools would do something about it. Japan has zero-tolerance for any type of bullying. Let's see, since JT hates Japan, he secretly endorses bullying. OWNED! (Reply to this) (Parent)

BUT BUT BUT...Jack Thompson said he will stop it???

monkeyincorner
2006-08-09 12:42 pm UTC (link)

Man, it must be miserable being Jack Thompson these days. Yesterday he gets scolded by the Assistant Attorney General of the state he's helping draft a video game bill for and today Rockstar gives him the big finger with their announcement that Bully is on schedule for release in October. I thought he took a bus of protesters to Take-Two headquarters, he wrote letters to everyone he knows including Take-Two CEO and even Bono, and he personally vowed to stop the game from being published. Must sucks to become so irrelevant and not able to make a single dent against Rockstar after all those years...

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: BUT BUT BUT...Jack Thompson said he will stop it??? mysticgamer 2006-08-10 12:12 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, damn that first amendment which prevents him from doing anything against Rock Star...except bitch about them. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: BUT BUT BUT...Jack Thompson said he will stop it??? enmitywithin 2006-08-10 05:37 am UTC (link)
	he has a "right to annoy" after all rolls eyes (Reply to this) (Parent)

rhanlav
2006-08-09 12:51 pm UTC (link)

Its like I said, this was a lot of fuss and feathers by folks like Jacko and others over some game that wasn't coming out for a while and they were just being preemptive because they thought they knew better. Frankly, I'd be happy if the game got a T rating just to drive Jacko bugnuts crazy (not that he isn't but I mean moreso), plus it would just be one more bucket of cold water for that 'Anti-Bully Game Measure' that happened in Miami-Dade a few days ago.

I wonder if this will make other morons... I mean video game opponents less likely to jump headfirst into getting stuff banned preemptively. If you want to be pissed off about stuff, the least you can do is wait to know what you're pissed off about.

So good going Rockstar! You get a gold star for making Jacko looking even more crazy than normal!

(Reply to this)

	I still hope... tollwutig 2006-08-09 12:55 pm UTC (link)
	there is a strong anti-bullying message in "Bully" just to make certain people look dumber than they already do. (Reply to this)

Swirly Simulator

o_rangekrush
2006-08-09 01:43 pm UTC (link)

So will this be a 'tame' version of the Warriors?

As I have been saying all along - all Rockstar ever showed was the name "Bully", 3 screens and almost nothing else.

Then the morality prophets declared this game was 'immoral' and were against EVEN THE THOUGHT of this game, based on preconceived and rediculous notions. If all this game really turns out to be is simply a game of being a scoundrel in a school... it effectively discredits all these pundits.

Good - false prophets need discrediting.

(Reply to this)

	I've got it all figured out. l0que 2006-08-09 02:05 pm UTC (link)
	Rockstar did this on purpose, and I love them for it. What better way to get yourself free press, and make EVERYONE look stupid, than to release vague information about a game about a controversial topic... ...and THEN turn around, and make it rated teen, instead of the m-rated bloodbath everyone expected? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: I've got it all figured out. startropics 2006-08-09 02:34 pm UTC (link)
	Haha, it is great. Now Jack is going to accuse them of conspiring with the ESRB to distribute this game more easily to kids. IT'S A CONSPIRACY! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: I've got it all figured out. xlorep_darkhelm 2006-08-09 03:13 pm UTC (link)
	I've been thinking the same thing myself. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: I've got it all figured out. the1jeffy 2006-08-09 03:28 pm UTC (link)
	Doesn't R* always do that very same marketing ploy? Let the vocal "Save the Children" crowd do your marketing for you, and laugh all the way to the bank. Kudos, R*, kudos. And this game seems interesting. Worth a rental, I'd bet. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: I've got it all figured out. xlorep_darkhelm 2006-08-09 09:22 pm UTC (link)
	Well, there was no "Save the Children" rant for their Ping Pong game... (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: I've got it all figured out.

sigma_7
2006-08-10 01:23 pm UTC (link)

Well, there was no "Save the Children" rant for their Ping Pong game...

There didn't have to be. It was highly unusual for a company known to release controversial games to release a game such as table tennis - they already have enough publicity that any game they publish creates its own publicity.

I think the main focus of the publicity was that it used the GTA 3 game engine.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: I've got it all figured out. the1jeffy 2006-08-10 02:32 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, I figure the stark contrast between big bad wolf R* and table tennis was enough to make that one notorious, at least enough to get word out. And the fact that in all accounts their table tennis is a good game helped with marketing as well. (Reply to this) (Parent)

goodrobotus
2006-08-09 02:37 pm UTC (link)

:Gasps in utter lack of surprise:

And just to clear up any misconception people might be having about a 'Victory' of any kind, games like this are a long time in development, for it to play as it does, it has to have been designed as it is from very near the top. This isn't a 'Hot Coffee' case of unsuitable content being removed from the engine, nobody forced them to remove anything.

Most gamers have been vocally of the opinion that this is EXACTLY what the game would be like, at the same time as the Doomsayers were trying to hail it as a Columbine Simulator or worse. So before people start casting around claiming they forced the change, consider the equal possibility that no change has been required from the offset.

Basically, it's a case of critics happily wading into a quagmire, led by their own prejudice, and gamers looking on and, saying, though I hate to use the words, 'I told you so'. It was a 'trap', an obvious, blatant one, and several people walked brazenly into it.

(Reply to this)

	Stick that in your pipe in smoke it, JT. terminator44 2006-08-09 02:44 pm UTC (link)
	Truth be told, when I first heard of the game and looked at the screens, I KNEW it would be T (or at least a light M). That must make me an expert by JT's standards, huh? (Reply to this)

	gatz111085 2006-08-09 03:26 pm UTC (link)
	Rockstar probly did that to smear it in JT's face. "Hey JT we not only made a game that's badass, it can also easily be played by minors HAHAHAHAAH suckit n00b" (Reply to this)

	Honestly... ferrarimanf355 2006-08-09 03:36 pm UTC (link)
	... if this game is rated T, do you know how much the anti-video game crowd would use this to terrifying effect? I hope the ESRB gives it a light M... (and on a side note, I do think that the ESRB should add a rating between T and M, like how the E10+ rating situates between E and T. What do you think?) (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Honestly... gamepolitics 2006-08-09 04:07 pm UTC (link)
	from what Brian Crecente came up with, I see one glaring problem for R* - the ability to attack teachers. Even though the player is punished for this, it is going to be a problem. Probably earn an M right there... (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Honestly... anticron 2006-08-09 05:12 pm UTC (link)
	Look forward to random comments about being able to wantonly attack and harm teachers without punishment after the game is released, completely ignoring the facts. (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Honestly...

trenthowell
2006-08-09 06:11 pm UTC (link)

Probably best if its rated M rather than T, though like it was said before a very light M rating.

Ya know I wonder how much of the opposition to this game was actually bullyied in their school days. Heh.

basic political n00b rant translated into english
"This game should be banned for bringing back horrible memories of wedgies, swirlies, name calling, and the since its from R*." JT

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Honestly...

andrew_eisen
2006-08-09 07:37 pm UTC (link)

the ability to attack teachers. Even though the player is punished for this, it is going to be a problem. Probably earn an M right there...

I would be severely disappointed in the ESRB if they upped the rating not on the type of violence but on the potential recipient of said violence. If it's teen level violence it shouldn't matter who it's directed towards. Teachers, cops, women, zombies...it's still teen level violence.

Of course, I haven't seen the game yet. Just have to wait and see.

Andrew Eisen

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: Honestly... ferrarimanf355 2006-08-09 09:09 pm UTC (link)
	I hope that's enough for an M, because I fear the PR disaster if the ESRB gives Bully a T. I just hope that the ESRB eventually inserts a rating between T and M, like I said... (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: Honestly... beardoggx 2006-08-10 11:17 am UTC (link)
	Doubt it. You're punished for attacking a teacher in real life(with jail time, no less), so it's consistent in that regard. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: Honestly... kincyr 2006-08-09 04:14 pm UTC (link)
	it would probably be something along the lines of T15+. (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Honestly...

phantompvp
2006-08-09 04:19 pm UTC (link)

That's what I was thinking as well. One of the biggest defenses for the game was that it wasn't for kids. It was going to be M-rated, which would signify that it was intended for adults. Heck, Hot Coffee was a hidden mod in a game already intended for adults, and look at how that blew up.

If this game comes out and is targeted at kids, the political backlash would be huge.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Honestly... dutch_gamer 2006-08-09 07:18 pm UTC (link)
	True the backlash of the politicians will be huge. But it does show that the politicians are basically already dictating how the ESRB should rate games. So the politicians are already telling us what we can and can't play. And I think this is very wrong. The ESRB should be able to rate games based on their own guidelines without being afraid of political pressure. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: Honestly... xwaix 2006-08-10 01:27 am UTC (link)
	A game's rating isn't really indicative of its target audience, though. Just because the ESRB gives something a Teen rating doesn't necessarily mean that Rockstar is aiming the game at teens. Though I can easily see politicians trying to make that argument. (Reply to this) (Parent)

Change in the story?

nightwng2000
2006-08-09 04:33 pm UTC (link)

Prior info that had come out last year referred to the school as a school for troubled teens. A sort of school for trouble makers. This doesn't sound like that (usually people like Thompson leave out that fact to mislead folks) is the case now. Maybe it was just left out by the reporter?

It had also been indicated that the teachers were rather unethical in their treatment of your character, if not towards other NPCs as well. But it doesn't mention that this time either. A miss by the journalist or a change in story?

They also say he's not "a bad kid", just a troubled one. But prior descriptions implied Jimmy had been thrown out of several schools, implying a REALLY, REALLY troubled kid.

Please, please don't let this be a free-roam muck-up like GTA! (If you've read many of my past posts, you know I'm a STRONG fan of storylines.)

And one final note:

STANDING OVATION TO THE nATIONAL PTA!!!!

You will clearly note they NEITHER condemn NOR condone content in ANY video game. They clearly openly desire parents to be educated so the parents themselves can make their OWN decisions as to what is or is not appropriate for their OWN children. I wish I had more time available to me to be a member. You folks there at the National PTA rule! (And you don't see/hear me saying things like that often.) :)

nightwng2000

(Reply to this)

	Woot w00t w00t GO ROCKSTAR!!!!!!!!!!!!! penpaperprint 2006-08-09 06:53 pm UTC (link)
	All i can say. Go rockstar for pissing people off. Especially people that seem to be droped on their heads as children. O.o it seems to be a nice and sutle FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to politics against games. especially jt (Reply to this)

automancer
2006-08-09 07:54 pm UTC (link)

It really wouldn't surprise me if this game did indeed get only a T-rating because it would really make people like Jack Thompson look like complete fools (or in this case more so) for overreacting like they did. Even if it does end up with an M the game content will speak for itself and from the sound of it the game will be nothing close to a "Columbine simulator" making JT look like the paranoid old man that he is.

-Auto

(Reply to this)

	Terry Evans made a great point... hayabusa75 2006-08-09 08:23 pm UTC (link)
	“I think (video games) exist at the critical intersection of art, technology and fiction - and as the medium matures, the controversy will dissipate into nostalgia as the demographic that enjoys them today become the establishment of tomorrow.” What a fine day that will be! Anyone thinking of running for office? ahem, ahem, Dennis? ahem (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Terry Evans made a great point... xlorep_darkhelm 2006-08-09 09:26 pm UTC (link)
	Tiii-iii-iii-ime is on our side, yes it is. (Reply to this) (Parent)

More Info on the Game

barfo
2006-08-09 10:55 pm UTC (link)

Wow NYT article on the game: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/10/arts/10bull.html (registration required)

Its not often that NYT gets a scoop on the gaming press (has it ever happened?), so its not totally clear if they are goign off of hands-on experience with the game or a pressrelease from R* or what, but they sure have a lot of gameplay details (buried within very mainstream prose of course). If R* did go first to NYT that tells a lot about their PR/marketing strategy. When even the NYT is looking at the game as a light hearted then you can tell that some people are really going ot have egg on their faces at the end. Some choice quotes in case you cant register at the site:

"When Rockstar first mentioned Bully to the public more than a year ago at a video-game trade show, the project sent a wave of concern through the industry...It appears, however, that those claims and fears may have been overblown. Rather than thrusting the player into the role of a tough, the entire point of the game is that bullies (noticeable at a distance by their distinctive white shirts) are everyone’s enemies."

"Hitting a smaller child, a girl of any age or an adult is strictly forbidden. You can try it, but you will not get away with it. The dramatic, ton-of-bricks response from school security, complete with purposely boring punishments, is meant to be a strong disincentive."

"The broader point is that rather than simply transferring the wanton violence and mayhem of the Grand Theft Auto series to a juvenile setting, Rockstar seems to have pulled out that game’s most compelling elements — an open world for the player to explore, tightly defined and memorable characters, a strong story line, high-end voice acting — and rewrapped them in a game that the company clearly hopes will be rated T for Teen rather than M for Mature."

"Compared with real life, Rockstar has totally played down sex, drugs and alcohol. But as befits a game called Bully, it has certainly blown out of proportion the amount of real bullying that goes on these days."

(Reply to this)

	Is it me or zippydsmlee 2006-08-10 12:00 am UTC (link)
	Is it me or dose anyone else think that they scraped the blood/gore and such in order to take a jab at JT and the game haters? (Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Is it me or

gray17
2006-08-10 02:13 am UTC (link)

I'm pretty sure that most people figure that there never was any blood and gore planned in the first place. Rockstar simply knew that a lot of people would assume there would be and raise an outcry that would do their marketing for them. Then when Rockstar releases actual details, their critics that were calling for it's banning would have egg on their face, and Rockstar would have gotten a ton of free publicity.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Is it me or zippydsmlee 2006-08-11 01:26 am UTC (link)
	True,but my gut tells that it was no more gorey peray than GTA but with all the crap being flung aroudn they desided to not have it bloody. however sicne theres no gore the big media wont waste thier time with it L (Reply to this) (Parent)

i_love_catgirls
2006-08-10 12:53 am UTC (link)

I just wanted to post an IM conversation I had just now. Not related to this topic, but close enough.

Girl: im seriously bored outta my mind!
Me: when i'm bored i play video games
Me: lots and lots of video games
Girl: i hate video games
Me: :(
Girl: they've ruined relationship
Girl: s*
Me: yours?
Girl: twice!
Me: what happened?
Girl: they always played video games
Me: don't blame the games because your boyfriends were inconsiderate assholes : (
Me: it doesn't make any sense
Me: if anything, they saved you from bad relationships. : D
Girl: lol

(Reply to this)

residentlune
2006-08-10 03:59 am UTC (link)

Just because I am curious ... did the PTA ever have a concrete opinion or stance on whether or not parents should be the responsible ones for what kids play, or if game legislation was the way to go?

After seeing this in Kotaku's article:

"But the National Parents and Teachers Association says it has chosen not to address Bully specifically, instead relying on the video game rating system to do its job.

“We don’t have any position on any specific games right now,” said national PTA spokesman James Martinez. “But we do (have a position) on the fact that parents should make informed decisions using the ESRB’s ratings and that those ratings should be enforced by retail stores.”"

... I wondered if they always felt this way, or if this might be some backpedaling after they saw all the crushing defeats over legislation across the country.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	no_fish 2006-08-11 02:10 am UTC (link)
	The PTA has always been in favor of the ESRB as well as legislation to prevent the sale of M-rated games to minors. See this GP: http://gamepolitics.livejournal.com/2005/12/02/ (Reply to this) (Parent)

Bully's release got mentioned on CNNMoney's site--but guess who didn't?

markstandridge
2006-08-10 12:34 pm UTC (link)

http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/09/technology/bc.media.bully.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes

They discussed the Miami-Dade County School Board resolution, but didn't talk about Laddy Jack's involvement at all. Pity for your friend and mine from Miami; the closest thing he's gotten to a victory in years vis-a-vis his li'l crusade against violent games, and he doesn't even get the recognition for it that he so obviously craves (but so patently doesn't deserve).

(Reply to this)

	USA Today feature on Bully beardoggx 2006-08-11 02:22 am UTC (link)
	http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/2006-08-09-bully-preview_x.htm (Reply to this)

	IGN Trailer mixmastermind 2006-08-12 01:50 am UTC (link)
	http://media.ps2.ign.com/media/746/746536/vids_1.html Looks good. Definitely a rent. (Reply to this)

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