Game Politics ([info]gamepolitics) wrote,
@ 2006-08-01 08:37:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend  Next Entry
Entry tags:david walsh, jeff johnson, judge rosenbaum, legislation, mike hatch, minnesota, nimf, sandy pappas

Despite Judicial Rebuke, MN Bill Sponsor Wants to Try Again

Even though a Federal District Court judge trashed Minnesota's video game law in a sharply-worded ruling yesterday, one of the sponsors of the legislation is ready to try again.

As reported by the St. Paul Pioneer-Press, State Sen. Sandy Pappas (D, seen at left) may propose new video game legislation in next year's session.

"The whole ruling defied common sense. I am so disappointed," she told the Pioneer-Press.

"The federal court said we don't have a right to protect our children, but we protect our children from other things. We don't let them smoke or buy liquor. You score points (in video games) for how many women you rape, how many cops you kill. How could that not affect them psychologically?"

GP: The ruling by Judge James Rosenbaum said nothing of the sort. Sen. Pappas is clearly politicking here. And by the way, we'd like to know where she gets her information about games. Is there a game that awards points for raping women? If so, GP hasn't seen it...

Minnesota Attorney General Mike Hatch, whose derision of violent video games as "worthless, disgusting speech" came in for particular rebuke from Judge Rosenbaum, told the newspaper he is considering an appeal. And, despite the court's complete rejection of research data presented by Hatch, the A.G. continued along that line, saying, "There are psychologists who believe the reward mechanism of more points, more games and higher levels of play in video games condition children to be rewarded by reenacting violence in the real world."

Hatch, by the way, is running for Governor in November.

Only Rep. Jeff Johnson, a Republican who co-sponsored Minnesota's legislation, seemed ready to accept the stinging judicial defeat and move forward.

"I don't know if we could go and craft different legislation that would be more narrowly tailored," he said. "Maybe the next step is just outside of legislation." Johnson told the Pioneer-Press that informing parents about game content might be a more effective approach.

Johnson is running for Attorney General in November.

The parental education concept was echoed by Dr. David Walsh, whose National Institute on Media and the Family is based in Minneapolis.

"While we might be tempted to wish for a legislative solution," Walsh said, "the real solution has to be education, which is what we've been advocating for years. Parents need to be media wise and watch what our kids watch. We can't always look to law to solve this problem."




Page 1 of 3
<<[1] [2] [3] >>

(187 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]jahbulon
2006-08-01 01:38 pm UTC (link)
Johnson told the Pioneer-Press that informing parents about game content might be a more effective approach.

My god! He learnt something!
Gotta love that comment from Pappas 'the ruling defied common sense'. Yes of course Pappas, anything that you disagree with defies common sense. You are the moral measure by which all set their watches.

(Reply to this)

Say what you want
[info]yukimurasanada
2006-08-01 01:39 pm UTC (link)
At least Dr. walsh knows a losing battle when he see's one. Those other imbeciles don't know that they have no chance to win and are throwing more money after bad science, unconstitutional efforts, and flawed arguments.

And then they wonder why a court shoots them down? Maybe the smartest person that states elected in recent years was Jessie Ventura, a pro wrestler, at least that man has some level of common sense. Can't remember him ever proposing bs legislation like this.

Oh well.

Just glad that this is now what? 7 courts? The more precident we get, the better.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Say what you want
[info]joetron2030
2006-08-01 02:30 pm UTC (link)
No, Jesse Ventura never would propose legislation like this. He only proposed legislation that seemed to directly affect his own pocketbook (like reducing car registration fees for expensive luxury vehicles or disconnecting local property taxes from local school funding) or supported his own narrow political point of view. While Governor Pawlenty makes me miss Ventura's term. They both make me miss Arne Carlson (R) and I'm a staunch Democrat!

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Say what you want - [info]nedlum, 2006-08-01 03:12 pm UTC
Walsh's Words
[info]skemodan
2006-08-01 01:40 pm UTC (link)
I'm impressed to hear Walsh openly admit that legislation isn't the answer. I'm all for education on the issues here, parent's need to be informed that there are games that their 8 year old shouldn't be playing, but legislation, as we all know, isn't the answer.

Is Pappas running for anything or is she just a dimwit?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Walsh's Words
[info]gamepolitics
2006-08-01 02:02 pm UTC (link)
Walsh has always been against legislation.

Pappas running? I'm not sure, to be honest. If she is, it's probably for re-election to her own seat.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]typhoid
2006-08-01 01:40 pm UTC (link)
"You score points (in video games) for how many women you rape, how many cops you kill. How could that not affect them psychologically?""

That's it. I live in MN. How do I get in touch with this Sandy NumbNuts? This is ridiculous. I can't even believe there is this much ignorance representing me. I feel dirty.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jythie
2006-08-01 02:09 pm UTC (link)
Please do. I think everyone here would be terribly curious to see if or how this person might respond to being called on such a statement, esp from one of her own voters.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Say what you want - [info]typhoid, 2006-08-01 02:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mnementh2230, 2006-08-01 02:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]typhoid, 2006-08-01 04:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]joetron2030, 2006-08-01 02:32 pm UTC
Re: Rape Games - [info]typhoid, 2006-08-01 02:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nedlum, 2006-08-01 03:14 pm UTC
Re: Rape Games - [info]nbouqu1, 2006-08-01 04:10 pm UTC
Re: Rape Games - [info]timbo1138, 2006-08-02 08:58 am UTC
Re: Rape Games - [info]dog_welder, 2006-08-02 03:11 pm UTC
Re: Rape Games - [info]typhoid, 2006-08-02 03:41 pm UTC
Re: Rape Games - [info]typhoid, 2006-08-02 03:39 pm UTC
Re: Rape Games - [info]nbouqu1, 2006-08-02 06:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]traiklin, 2006-08-01 03:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eusisnaphtali, 2006-08-01 09:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]traiklin, 2006-08-01 11:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]terminator44, 2006-08-02 12:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nightwng2000, 2006-08-01 03:20 pm UTC

[info]hedgeworth
2006-08-01 01:44 pm UTC (link)
I'm with GP, can anyone actually name for me, a game where you score points based on the number of women you rape? O.o




It kind of defeats their own arguement, when they rely on 'facts' that aren't supported by any, to make their case.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]robertrence
2006-08-01 03:53 pm UTC (link)
Custer's Revenge.

Doesn't mean I agree with their standpoint though :- b

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]gamepolitics, 2006-08-01 04:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]terminator44, 2006-08-01 06:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]semperar, 2006-08-01 08:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gamepolitics, 2006-08-01 09:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]boffo97, 2006-08-01 06:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dkh, 2006-08-02 12:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]boffo97, 2006-08-02 02:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dkh, 2006-08-02 03:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]boffo97, 2006-08-02 11:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]xlorep_darkhelm, 2006-08-02 11:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]barfo, 2006-08-02 04:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]boffo97, 2006-08-02 11:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]timbo1138, 2006-08-02 09:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xlorep_darkhelm, 2006-08-02 03:57 pm UTC

[info]sir_bissel
2006-08-01 01:46 pm UTC (link)
"There are psychologists who believe the reward mechanism of more points, more games and higher levels of play in video games condition children to be rewarded by reenacting violence in the real world"

Except in real life there are things like, I dunno... Jail? which tend to discourage people from reenacting violence in the real world...

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]boffo97
2006-08-01 06:22 pm UTC (link)
There are more psychologists who believe it's the parents' job to inform the children that it's just a game, to monitor play, and to pull the plug if it gets to be a problem, and that government assistance is not needed.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]chadius
2006-08-01 01:47 pm UTC (link)
Rep. Jeff Johnson

"I don't know if we could go and craft different legislation that would be more narrowly tailored," he said. "Maybe the next step is just outside of legislation." Johnson told the Pioneer-Press that informing parents about game content might be a more effective approach.

Dr. David Walsh

"While we might be tempted to wish for a legislative solution," Walsh said, "the real solution has to be education, which is what we've been advocating for years. Parents need to be media wise and watch what our kids watch. We can't always look to law to solve this problem."

-----

So...some people are actually figuring it out? Teach parents that they are responsible, instead of trying to ban games?

OMFGZone!1

(Reply to this)

Bunch of Crybabies in Minnesota
[info]beardoggx
2006-08-01 01:48 pm UTC (link)
Sandy Pappas' response defies common sense and logic.

Video games can never be compared to tobacco and alcohol, as video games are speech and tobacco and alcohol are not.

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/586883.html

Dr. Walsh's comment in the Star-Tribune:

"If you took all the money that's been spent on defending these laws, and you put it into education, I think we'd get farther," he said.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Bunch of Crybabies in Minnesota
[info]semperar
2006-08-01 08:12 pm UTC (link)
Though the NIMF's various report cards have amounted to anti-ESRB whining, Dr. Walsh certainly seems to carry himself well and sensibly. Leave it to Jack Thompson to elevate him to sainthood by comparison :P

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Bunch of Crybabies in Minnesota - [info]rhanlav, 2006-08-01 11:51 pm UTC
Re: Bunch of Crybabies in Minnesota - [info]timbo1138, 2006-08-02 08:45 am UTC

[info]you_said_what
2006-08-01 01:49 pm UTC (link)
"You score points (in video games) for how many women you rape, how many cops you kill."

is there a game you actually rape people in and then keeps a tally of it?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jythie
2006-08-01 02:08 pm UTC (link)
Not that has an M or lower rating in the US.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]viridiscervus, 2006-08-01 02:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyn1c42, 2006-08-01 02:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gabrielcelesta, 2006-08-02 01:23 am UTC
Yup. - [info]unang_bangkay, 2006-08-01 02:45 pm UTC
Re: Yup. - [info]jesdk, 2006-08-01 03:41 pm UTC
Re: Yup. - [info]unang_bangkay, 2006-08-02 02:54 am UTC
Re: Yup. - [info]you_said_what, 2006-08-01 03:42 pm UTC
Re: Yup. - [info]gamepolitics, 2006-08-01 04:41 pm UTC
Re: Yup. - [info]typhoid, 2006-08-01 04:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brendanthejedi, 2006-08-01 11:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darktetsuya, 2006-08-01 11:53 pm UTC

[info]zewrestler
2006-08-01 01:49 pm UTC (link)
And by the way, we'd like to know where she gets her information about games. Is there a game that awards points for raping women?

5 bucks she's thinking of GTA

"Maybe the next step is just outside of legislation." Johnson told the Pioneer-Press that informing parents about game content might be a more effective approach.

is that common sense i hear?

"the real solution has to be education, which is what we've been advocating for years. Parents need to be media wise and watch what our kids watch. We can't always look to law to solve this problem."


Finally. Common sense. I can't belive my eyes/ears. this person should be running for gov, not Hatch

(Reply to this)

Rape Games
[info]rayzak2000
2006-08-01 01:51 pm UTC (link)
"You score points (in video games) for how many women you rape,"

Those games are from Japan.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Rape Games
[info]diabolikal
2006-08-01 02:09 pm UTC (link)
No, I think they were talking about GTA, which they never played and when they watched footage, they obviously were only seeing what they wanted to.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Rape Games - [info]rayzak2000, 2006-08-01 03:49 pm UTC
Re: Rape Games - [info]mane115, 2006-08-01 08:06 pm UTC
Re: Rape Games - [info]terminator44, 2006-08-01 02:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nedlum, 2006-08-01 03:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]terminator44, 2006-08-01 06:27 pm UTC
Re: Rape Games - [info]rammsoldat, 2006-08-01 05:28 pm UTC
Re: Rape Games - [info]zippydsmlee, 2006-08-01 07:29 pm UTC
Re: Rape Games - [info]rayzak2000, 2006-08-01 08:18 pm UTC

[info]sushispook
2006-08-01 01:52 pm UTC (link)
You score points (in video games) for how many women you rape, how many cops you kill.

yes, because all video games are rape simulators. oh how i have fond memories of mario rapist 64.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]terminator44
2006-08-01 02:41 pm UTC (link)
And Grand Theft Rape, and Rape Nukem 3D, and Rape Faction II! I can't wait for Dead Raping to come out, that's the game where you violate zombies!:)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]drgrumbles, 2006-08-01 03:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]spudsey, 2006-08-01 04:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]joshdavis271, 2006-08-01 07:56 pm UTC

[info]anticron
2006-08-01 02:05 pm UTC (link)
You score points[...]

I wish these people knew what the fuck they were talking about.

(Reply to this)


[info]anticron
2006-08-01 02:06 pm UTC (link)
Johnson told the Pioneer-Press that informing parents about game content might be a more effective approach.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

(Reply to this)


[info]jythie
2006-08-01 02:07 pm UTC (link)
You score points (in video games) for how many women you rape,

I am just waiting for someone to say a line like that while on the stand defending one of these laws, just to see if someone calls them on giving false testimony.

If I recall correctly, lieing on the stand is kinda frowned apon...

(Reply to this)

Rape games?
[info]startropics
2006-08-01 02:12 pm UTC (link)
I've yet to see them up for retail. I hear about them so often but I don't get to play them. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Rape games?
[info]joshdavis271
2006-08-01 08:00 pm UTC (link)
Am I missing a game? cause adon't remember a rape rape revolution beging released, we don't have it at wal-mart, ah I get it, wal-mart must have for got to order it. or maybe they don't carry H-games and neither does all the retail outlets around here. I wish people would get their facts straight.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

I know a game that gives you points for rape!
[info]grls_r_gamers_2
2006-08-01 02:15 pm UTC (link)
It was the controversial Mario Party: Gang-Banger’s Edition. See, in the beginning, we see the Mario characters partying a little too hard, and when the gameplay starts, you wander around the Mushroom Kingdom, collecting Stars. The object of the game is to get the most stars so your character can bribe their way out of jail. Now, the game offers minigames such as “Snuffin’ Coke,” “Booze It Up,” and the Bowser-roulette game, and the reason for this post, “Hot Koopa Koffee.”
------
Okay, now I’m going to be serious. They’re acting like EVERY F***ING game made contains crap like rape, murder, drug use, etc., when in reality, only a select percentage contains that stuff.

You’d have to stoop to a whole knew level of stupid to generalize things like that. It’s like they’ve never even heard of Mario, Lumines, Crash Bandicoot, or other highly-successful, well-made, NON M-RATED games.

I’m 14, I enjoy GTA, God of War, and Prey, all of which are bloody and M-rated, but I also enjoy Crash Bandicoot, Animal Crossing, and Luigi’s Mansion, all of which could be qualified as “kiddie” and are E-rated. My point is, politicians see all games as spawn of Satan, worthless, disgusting, and unfit for children, when there are games that just plain aren’t.

I guess what I want is for them to stop generalizing and saying “games are blah blah blah,” and at least say “THESE games are blah blah blah.”

Rant over. Feel free to flame, agree with, or correct me.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: I know a game that gives you points for rape!
[info]beacon80
2006-08-01 03:42 pm UTC (link)
I completely agree. Games like Grand Theft Auto (which, as everone here knows does not reward you for killing cops and the only sex in the game is consensual) are rarities, yet politicians act like they're the norm.
That being said, I'm gonna have to play Devil's Advocate for a moment. Assume for a moment there were games based on rape and cop-killing, and that they did have a serious negative effect on children (I know, both are hard to swallow). The legislation would not effect games like Crash Bandicoot and Animal Crossing. And if only a small fraction of a product was known to harm children, it would be reasonable to make sure that fraction was kept away from children.

Of course, since there is no proof that video games are any more harmful to children than television, none of that matters.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: I know a game that gives you points for rape! - [info]timbo1138, 2006-08-02 08:52 am UTC
Contact Sandy Pappas
[info]mnementh2230
2006-08-01 02:32 pm UTC (link)
I found her actual email address - I won't put it up here specifically, but I will post the page it's listed on.

http://www.visi.com/~sandypappas/

That's her MN state "contact me" webpage. Her email address is listed there, if you'd like to send her a message.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Contact Sandy Pappas
[info]xwaix
2006-08-01 08:56 pm UTC (link)
Mnementh? An Anne McCaffrey fan?

And just to be on-topic, I REALLY wish these politicians would educate themselves on some of the games they're whining about. Actually playing them, maybe for about five minutes or so, would be a good start, I guess.

What are they thinking, anyway? Did they just happen to have a big wad of taxpayers' cash lying around that they didn't know what to do with? Did they just go "Well, that first law failed... I know how we can waste all that cash!"?

"I don't know if we could go and craft different legislation that would be more narrowly tailored," he said. "Maybe the next step is just outside of legislation." Johnson told the Pioneer-Press that informing parents about game content might be a more effective approach.

And we have a winner! *salutes*

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]ianc14
2006-08-01 02:56 pm UTC (link)
"The whole ruling defied common sense. I am so disappointed," she told the Pioneer-Press.
Heh. More like the planned law defied common snese.

(Reply to this)

Deaf,DUmb,and BLIND
[info]zippydsmlee
2006-08-01 03:00 pm UTC (link)
Well what do you know they dont seem to understand that this bill in any form is dead and yet want to constantly waste time and money on it.....

(Reply to this)


[info]typhoid
2006-08-01 03:02 pm UTC (link)
Whenever someone tries to tell me that games today are so terrible that you can RAPE... well, here ya go. 1982.

(NSFW in theory, though no one will probably notice)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Custer's_Revenge

(Reply to this)


[info]muhammed
2006-08-01 03:04 pm UTC (link)
"The whole ruling defied common sense."

No, the law itself defied common sense, the ruling was the epitomy of common sense. The only thing that surprised me about this was that the judge didn't strike it down the day it was brought before him. Though after reading the ruling I guess I would need some time to write that up as well.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]wolfstar
2006-08-01 03:48 pm UTC (link)
Well, y'know, whenever your (bad) ideas get shot down, you have to attack those "liberal judges" for "pushing their morals" on the people, against all common sense.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]typhoid, 2006-08-01 04:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mechboy, 2006-08-01 09:20 pm UTC
Cripes...
[info]bustermanzero
2006-08-01 03:09 pm UTC (link)
It amazes me how these people can get elected. Talk about not knowing how to pick your battles too. Lying through your teeth about rape in games in a desperate attempt to gain a few conservative family votes while losing gamer support? Bad idea. Hey Minnesota gamers, launch a protest about her lies. Tell the people, dammit. This crap is getting out of hand.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

I'm boggled.
[info]ironmaus
2006-08-01 10:01 pm UTC (link)
Your icon is so excellent that it freaks me out.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

After reading through the ruling...
[info]dnsbubba
2006-08-01 03:16 pm UTC (link)
I was gratified to see that the judge denied every single point, from the actual law, to the "research" used to justify it, to even the posting of the proposed sign.

(Reply to this)

Just noticed this.
[info]dnsbubba
2006-08-01 03:24 pm UTC (link)
"The federal court said we don't have a right to protect our children, but we protect our children from other things. We don't let them smoke or buy liquor.

This is a truly, truly stupid statement. Is this lady truly under the impression that children, despite the efforts of their parents, are only truly protected from those things the government doesn't allow them to have?

And since when are children protected from smoking and drinking?

Someone needs a reality check.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Just noticed this.
[info]gamepolitics
2006-08-01 04:57 pm UTC (link)
children are legally barred from buying alcohol and tobacco...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Just noticed this. - [info]dnsbubba, 2006-08-01 06:00 pm UTC
Re: Just noticed this. - [info]terminator44, 2006-08-01 06:39 pm UTC
Re: Just noticed this. - [info]skemodan, 2006-08-01 05:09 pm UTC
Re: Just noticed this. - [info]rammsoldat, 2006-08-01 05:33 pm UTC

(187 comments) - (Post a new comment)

Page 1 of 3
<<[1] [2] [3] >>

Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…