Game Politics ([info]gamepolitics) wrote,
@ 2006-07-22 11:04:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend  Next Entry
Entry tags:ema, esa, fine the buyer, lawsuits, legislation, mike hatch, minnesota

Minnesota A.G. Admits Games are Speech ...Vile, Disgusting Speech

Even though he is currently embroiled in a First Amendment battle with the video game industry, Minnesota's Attorney General Mike Hatch - unlike some other high profile critics we could mention - is a big enough man to admit that games are speech. Just one problem, though - he finds them to be a "worthless, disgusting" variety of speech.

Hatch filed a memorandum earlier this week with the Federal District Court in Minneapolis, There, the video game industry is seeking to have Minnesota's "fine the buyer" law overturned on constitutional grounds. In his memorandum, Attorney General Hatch is unsparing in expressing his revulsion toward violent video games. Hatch's wording is so over-the-top, in fact, that you can almost hear him retching in the background. Check out this purple prose:

"In balancing the applicable interests in this case, the court should err on the side of protecting minors rather than protecting their limited right of access to such low value speech..."

"...the Court here must ultimately balance the State's compelling interests in protecting the psychological well-being and ethical and moral development of minors against the limited First Amendment right of minors to access speech of very low societal value..."

"...there may be few, if any, other forms of speech, even though protected, that are of any lesser societal value than repulsive video games depicting the bloody slaughter of babies and animals, urination and defecation, rape, decapitation, dismemberment and disembowlment."

"...the Court should consider and weigh the societal value of the worthless, disgusting speech at issue..."

After reading Hatch's memorandum I feel so... unclean. I also confess that, even though I have written about games for more than a decade and played them for longer, I am at a loss to understand some of his points. Slaughter of babies and animals? Defecation? Rape? When? Where?

Download Attorney General Hatch's memorandum here.




Page 1 of 3
<<[1] [2] [3] >>

(152 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]phrawzty
2006-07-22 04:14 pm UTC (link)
That dude is playing some wierd fucking video games.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jesdk
2006-07-22 04:29 pm UTC (link)
I'd REALLY want to see what games he pulled those "facts" from...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]gamepolitics, 2006-07-22 04:33 pm UTC
there's this... - [info]gamepolitics, 2006-07-22 04:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phenyx, 2006-07-22 04:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gamepolitics, 2006-07-22 04:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gamepolitics, 2006-07-22 04:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]goodrobotus, 2006-07-22 04:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]goodrobotus, 2006-07-22 05:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kroninokiller, 2006-07-22 07:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gatz111085, 2006-07-22 09:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]samsoneffect, 2006-07-23 04:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kainsularei, 2006-07-23 10:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]xlorep_darkhelm, 2006-07-23 04:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]gamepolitics, 2006-07-23 09:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kincyr, 2006-07-23 10:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phoenixzero, 2006-07-23 12:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rowan_greyson, 2006-07-23 06:06 pm UTC

[info]ravenousrattler
2006-07-22 04:26 pm UTC (link)
It's hardly worthless speech, i don't know how anyone could say that,I've seen worse stuff in movies,it looks like this guy's been huffin from the JT Bullshit bag, I really think these people should actually play some videogames before condemning them, i mean how much crap do they have to spout before they confront the thing that they seem to know little to nothing about.

(Reply to this)


[info]goodrobotus
2006-07-22 04:27 pm UTC (link)
Which, I think, proves beyond the slightest shadow of a doubt three things...

1) This man has never gone into a cinema in the last 20 years
2) This man has never played computer games.
3) This man has yet to realise that the entire reason the constitution was drawn up was to protect against people like him who try to place 'levels of value' on Freedom depending on his own personal opinion.

(Reply to this)

Figures.
[info]terminator44
2006-07-22 04:40 pm UTC (link)
Until the current generation of politicians die out and we can get some gamers in office, video games are not going to get ANY respect in the mainstream. This is the same thing comic books, Elvis, and D&D went through; the older generation, the one in power, didn't grow up with these things. Therefore, they don't understand them, so they come to the conclusion that the First Amendment does not apply to that medium, and thus they feel the need to restrict it out of fear that it may give their children messages that differ from theirs. Like George Santanyawa said: "Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it."

(Reply to this)

Well that's that.
[info]jaykaos
2006-07-22 04:42 pm UTC (link)
He's pretty much screwed about half of the argument anti-video game people have, specifically the "video games aren't speech" stuff. Now the only thing he has to fall back is the "harmful to minors" bit, which can never really stand up in the face of the court. So long Minnesota game law.

(Reply to this)


[info]beardoggx
2006-07-22 04:43 pm UTC (link)
This man just pretty much defeated his own case.

(Reply to this)

Okay, I figured out the "slaughter of innocent animals" part of what he was saying...
[info]gamepolitics
2006-07-22 04:47 pm UTC (link)
...it refers to hunting season in Minnesota.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Okay, I figured out the "slaughter of innocent animals" part of what he was saying...
[info]beardoggx
2006-07-22 04:57 pm UTC (link)
And hunting games, like Cabela's Dangerous Hunts, etc.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Okay, I figured out the "slaughter of innocent animals" part of what he was saying... - [info]gamepolitics, 2006-07-22 05:11 pm UTC
Re: Okay, I figured out the "slaughter of innocent animals" part of what he was saying... - [info]beardoggx, 2006-07-22 05:15 pm UTC
Re: Okay, I figured out the "slaughter of innocent animals" part of what he was saying... - [info]curiousthompson, 2006-07-22 11:34 pm UTC
Re: Okay, I figured out the "slaughter of innocent animals" part of what he was saying... - [info]xlorep_darkhelm, 2006-07-23 04:44 am UTC
Re: Okay, I figured out the "slaughter of innocent animals" part of what he was saying... - [info]the1jeffy, 2006-07-23 02:22 pm UTC
Re: Okay, I figured out the "slaughter of innocent animals" part of what he was saying... - [info]typhoid, 2006-07-22 05:00 pm UTC
Re: Okay, I figured out the "slaughter of innocent animals" part of what he was saying... - [info]ss_ebonclaw, 2006-07-22 05:36 pm UTC
Let us have a look at that
[info]eternallegenduk
2006-07-22 04:53 pm UTC (link)
"Repulsive video games depicting the bloody slaughter of babies and animals, urination and defecation, rape, decapitation, dismemberment and disembowlment."

Bloody slaughter of babies:
The closest I can think of here would be Doom 3, which had warped cherubim monsters that made you feel genuinely uneasy about killing. At a push, Silent Hill has had some almost-children enemies.

Bloody slaughter of animals:
Yep. The obvious one here is Carmageddon, which even had a zoo in one of its incarnations. Otherwise, many games feature animals as enemies though, in their defence, they are trying to kill you. Not-quite-so-bloody slaughter of animals is just, well, hunting. That's a sport.

Urination:
One game: Postal. Some others (I'm looking at you, FPSes) have bathrooms that you can "use" but are little more than a sound effect.

Defecation:
Got me. I can't think of one that features that sort of thing in an any way realistic manner. Closest approximation off the top of my head: Ovipositioning a la Yoshi.

Rape:
Rape Rape Revolution and that one ancient 8-bitter that some people like to bring up. Newsflash: GTA:SA's hidden sex scenes were consensual.

Decapitation and dismemberment:
Definitely yes. Pretty much any game with a gun will have flying limbs and optional buckets o' gore. One thing, though: So what? Why is decapitating someone in a game morally worse than slashing them with a sword and having them fall to the ground and disappear?

Disembowelment:
Kind of. Not many games have modelled organs for the player to remove. Generic gibs, yes. You're more likely to see organs used as scenery or in cutscenes, which means you the player aren't really disemboweling anyone.

His overall statement:
Rubbish. He is using the likes of Postal to tar the likes of, well, everything else. How long before gamism becomes a hate crime?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Let us have a look at that
[info]ianc14
2006-07-22 05:23 pm UTC (link)
Bloody slaughter of babies:
The closest I can think of here would be Doom 3, which had warped cherubim monsters that made you feel genuinely uneasy about killing. At a push, Silent Hill has had some almost-children enemies.

Prey also has ghostly children you kill. But that is a bit of push, since they are already dead....

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Let us have a look at that - [info]terminator44, 2006-07-22 06:56 pm UTC
Re: Let us have a look at that - [info]gamepolitics, 2006-07-22 07:10 pm UTC
Re: Let us have a look at that - [info]lost_watcher, 2006-07-22 08:21 pm UTC
Re: Let us have a look at that - [info]gamepolitics, 2006-07-22 10:32 pm UTC
Re: Let us have a look at that - [info]xlorep_darkhelm, 2006-07-23 04:45 am UTC
Fear everything! - [info]kharne83, 2006-07-22 06:32 pm UTC
Re: Fear everything! - [info]gamepolitics, 2006-07-22 07:12 pm UTC
Re: Fear everything! - [info]kharne83, 2006-07-22 08:27 pm UTC
Re: Fear movies! - [info]eternallegenduk, 2006-07-22 08:37 pm UTC
Re: Fear everything! - [info]terminator44, 2006-07-22 10:04 pm UTC
Re: Fear everything! - [info]ianc14, 2006-07-22 08:29 pm UTC
Re: Let us have a look at that - [info]thesisiod, 2006-07-22 08:08 pm UTC
Re: Let us have a look at that - [info]lost_watcher, 2006-07-22 08:31 pm UTC
Re: Let us have a look at that - [info]longtimelurker, 2006-07-23 12:07 pm UTC
Re: Let us have a look at that - [info]darktetsuya, 2006-07-22 09:02 pm UTC
Re: Let us have a look at that - [info]froggersrevenge, 2006-07-23 11:47 pm UTC
Re: Let us have a look at that - [info]gamepolitics, 2006-07-24 02:20 am UTC
Re: Let us have a look at that - [info]poet_ninja, 2006-07-24 08:05 pm UTC

[info]typhoid
2006-07-22 04:56 pm UTC (link)
Dude, what games can you kill babies and rape? Animals? Defacation? What the hell? Though I like the fact that he doesn't like the killing of babies and animals, but adults are apparently fine. Cool!

First I have to be embarassed to live in the USA because of Bush. Now I have to be ashamed to live in MN because of those ridiculous quotes.

It's not just that game aren't getting respect, it's that they seem perfectly happy to LIE about it. Jeez.

(Reply to this)


[info]ianc14
2006-07-22 04:57 pm UTC (link)
Holy...

Wow.

depicting the bloody slaughter of babies and animals, urination and defecation, rape,
I dont think i even heard f any games that feature stuff like that.

I feel more annoyed by his comments than some of a certain lawyers rants. I mean saying they are a wirthless form of speech is just.... Well disgusting. Just because you dont like some of the things that are in M rated games doenst make them a lesser form of speech.

Is a violent film a lesser form of speech beause of its violence? No. Same should apply to games.

(Reply to this)


[info]typhoid
2006-07-22 05:02 pm UTC (link)
I should mention that there was a post a few days ago in [info]feminist where a girl went OFF on how TERRIBLE this new game Grand Theft Auto was! You can kidnap prostitutes, rape them then kill them! What horrible violence against women! We need to organize and ban this horrible game!

I posted the facts. She then replied "oh, I've never played the game, I just heard some coworkers talking about it."

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jythie
2006-07-22 10:06 pm UTC (link)
link?
I am curious to see this tread.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]typhoid, 2006-07-23 12:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jythie, 2006-07-23 04:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jythie, 2006-07-23 04:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]typhoid, 2006-07-23 10:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jythie, 2006-07-23 06:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]terminator44, 2006-07-23 07:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]spiritoftherain, 2006-07-22 10:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the1jeffy, 2006-07-23 02:32 pm UTC

[info]theshroomguy
2006-07-22 05:21 pm UTC (link)
such low value speech..."

What idiots like him have yet to realize that no matter how voilent or sexualized a game may be. Its still speech and there is nothing him politions or a certain laywer from florida can do about it.

(Reply to this)


[info]goodrobotus
2006-07-22 05:40 pm UTC (link)
"...there may be few, if any, other forms of speech, even though protected, that are of any lesser societal value than repulsive video games depicting the bloody slaughter of babies and animals, urination and defecation, rape, decapitation, dismemberment and disembowlment."

THAT is a suicide argument right there, he's already admitted that there may be other, what he considers to be 'lower', forms of speech that are already free.

Game Set Match.

(Reply to this)


[info]gumbamasta
2006-07-22 05:48 pm UTC (link)
Maybe he´s refering to the "Hello Kitty" MMORPG.

(Reply to this)


[info]majestic_12_x
2006-07-22 06:16 pm UTC (link)
Opinion, opinion, opinion. Mr. Hatch thinks that the State should determine what is "disgusting and vile". Tsk tsk tsk, Mr. A.G. Let me guess, he's running for some political office or re-election too?

(Reply to this)

Well, that made me quite angry
[info]woundwalker
2006-07-22 06:57 pm UTC (link)
Someone should spend more time playing games and less time listening to Lieberman, Thompson and Fox News. It's just the rantings of someone uninformed, but he does hold influence and that's a concern. If they don't understand that video games are not a mature and mainstream medium by now, how can we expect them to in future? Going on this, I don't think that game-related bills will go away for a while.

In short, I feel that what he said is worse than 'Games aren't speech because they are interactive' because you can strike down bad laws, but you can't change opinions based on bad information. You could give them different information, but what are the chances of this guy ever picking up a controller? You can be upset at the amount of violence in the media, but it's hard to see why anyone whould single out video games so strongly like this guy has.

(Reply to this)


[info]kajex
2006-07-22 07:04 pm UTC (link)
"...there may be few, if any, other forms of speech, even though protected, that are of any lesser societal value than repulsive video games depicting the bloody slaughter of babies and animals, urination and defecation, rape, decapitation, dismemberment and disembowlment."

...
Such a game would never be sold, and the guy is an idiot to know that there IS a line that is drawn. I've never heard of a game depciting baby-killing, and Nintendogs is the only game I've played that has elements of piss and poop implemented into them- and in those cases, you have to clean it up, like any good puppy-owning citizen.

What a moron. Good on him for knowing it's speech, but bad for him that he has to be an idiot listing what he thinks are the only games for it.

(Reply to this)


[info]nleseul
2006-07-22 07:31 pm UTC (link)
Um... The Sims requires you to send your Sims to the bathroom—maybe he counts that as “urination and defecation”? It makes about as much sense as Thompson complaining about the “nudity” in that same game.

(Reply to this)


[info]aresef
2006-07-22 07:33 pm UTC (link)
Know what? This battle of ours against idiots like this has been over for some time. At this point we can only watch them self-destruct. No sane judge will let these bills through.

(Reply to this)


[info]startropics
2006-07-22 07:34 pm UTC (link)
Some of those parameters might fit Silent Hill 2, although I can't think of a kid in their right mind who would want to play it.

He's just sulking at the thought of a loss and is trying to guilt-trip the courts. This guy's as mature as the idiot I banned from work last week.

(Reply to this)

Hypocrit.
[info]doggyspew
2006-07-22 07:38 pm UTC (link)
"...the Court here must ultimately balance the State's compelling interests in protecting the psychological well-being and ethical and moral development of minors against the limited First Amendment right of minors to access speech of very low societal value..."

The same reason why such racist and fascist media like "Mein Kampf" and closer to the US's home "Birth of a Nation" are also allowed (Or anything else that is produce in the media by extremists on both sides of the political spectrum).

These are WAY more damaging stuff to the well-being and ethical and moral development of minors.

(Reply to this)


[info]gray17
2006-07-22 08:15 pm UTC (link)
So, I guess this guy isn't a big movie goer?

(Reply to this)

(Deleted post)
Re: Come to think of it...
[info]foxsynergy
2006-07-23 02:31 pm UTC (link)
Show me a man who doesn't defecate, and I'll show you a man who's full of crap.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Come to think of it... - [info]barfo, 2006-07-24 08:45 pm UTC
Link?
[info]thejccalhoun
2006-07-22 08:18 pm UTC (link)
Is the memorandum available online soemwhere?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Download the document..
[info]gamepolitics
2006-07-22 09:03 pm UTC (link)
http://www.gamepolitics.com/images/MN-hatch-speech.pdf

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Questionable Game Content
[info]bustermanzero
2006-07-22 08:21 pm UTC (link)
Slaughter of animals - various titles. Animals includes wolves, dogs, cows, and the like. You can kill them in shooters, RPGs and the short. However, most of the time these things also attack you, so its putting down rabid animals.

Slaughter of babies - never seen babies killed. Children? Yeah, but only in games where if you do you suffer seriously for it. For example, Fallout 2. If you kill a child you become branded as a child killer, which pretty much makes you a villain for the rest of the game.

Defecation - Maybe twice, and both were not detailed at all, just implied. Once in Final Fantasy 7 at a diner, another time in GTA III when you talk with Ray.

Rape - Nada.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Questionable Game Content
[info]goodrobotus
2006-07-22 09:00 pm UTC (link)
Really ironic part is that these comments about animals are being made whilst some states are pondering lowering the minimum age for firing a hunting gun to 8...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Questionable Game Content - [info]gatz111085, 2006-07-22 09:42 pm UTC
Re: Questionable Game Content - [info]goodrobotus, 2006-07-23 01:19 am UTC
Re: Questionable Game Content - [info]riffraff1138, 2006-07-22 09:18 pm UTC
Re: Questionable Game Content - [info]kincyr, 2006-07-23 02:34 am UTC
Re: Questionable Game Content - [info]bustermanzero, 2006-07-23 04:39 am UTC
Re: Questionable Game Content - [info]riffraff1138, 2006-07-23 03:23 pm UTC
Re: Questionable Game Content - [info]gamepolitics, 2006-07-23 03:36 pm UTC

(152 comments) - (Post a new comment)

Page 1 of 3
<<[1] [2] [3] >>

Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…