Game Politics ([info]gamepolitics) wrote,
@ 2006-05-28 10:50:00
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Entry tags:dual shock controllers, editorials, j.d. cain, jack thompson, legislation, louisiana, roy burrell

Sunday Editorial Roundup: All Louisiana, All the Time

This weekend's selection of editorials and op-eds all deal with Louisiana's pending video game legislation, a subject which GamePolitics has been tracking relentlessly.

First up we have none other than Jack Thompson, the Miami attorney and anti-game activist, who penned an op-ed, "Proposal is needed to prevent a Louisiana Columbine" for the Shreveport Times.

The Times, of course, ripped both Thompson and the Louisiana legislation in its own May 16th editorial, so perhaps this was the paper's way of giving the Miami attorney equal time.

Thompson's op-ed contains nothing GP readers haven't heard before, save for the news that the controversial anti-game activist will be testifying before the Louisiana State Senate this Tuesday as that body considers Rep. Roy Burrell's video game bill, HB1381. Burrell's proposal was approved by the Louisiana House unanimously earlier this month. Thompson helped draft the legislation. Beyond that, Thompson once again touts his 1999 appearance on the Today Show, cites several well-known school shootings, and mentions research data which he claims gives support to his position.

As he did at the May 10th hearing on Rep. Roy Burrell's bill in the Louisiana House, Thompson continues to push perhaps the silliest idea we've ever heard in the long-running political debate over video game content:

"All of the 'Grand Theft Auto' games are designed to be played on the PlayStation 2 with the 'dual shock' controller. This hand-held device gives you a pleasurable buzz back into your hands with each kill. This is operant conditioning, behavior modification right out of B.F. Skinner's laboratory."

Houma Today, named "Newspaper of the Year" by the Louisiana Press Association, issued an editorial in opposition to Louisiana's pending legislation. Houma Today's editors pose the question, "If it's unconstitutional, why do it?"

"The point here is not to argue in favor of selling violent and explicit materials to minors; some video games are obviously inappropriate and should not be used by kids. Our point, however, is that parents, not government, should be responsible for what kinds of video games their kids play..."

"Unless U.S. citizens repeal the First Amendment, this legislative activity must be viewed as political theater... We believe most legislators know this. We also believe they have more important things to do."

The idea of whether video games should be high on the priority list of Louisiana legislators is also raised by The Advocate.

"Nine months after hurricanes Katrina and Rita, a lot of Louisiana residents are doubting that the state is moving in the right direction... the survey found significant anxiety among residents about Louisiana's future."

"But while the survey respondents picked rebuilding, education and the economy as leading issues of concern, these issues don't seem to have much of a profile down at the Capitol these days. Instead, lawmakers have been spending a lot of time, at the taxpayers' expense, discussing cockfighting, violent video games and lawyers' ads... it's looking like business as usual at the Capitol. In other words, exactly what Louisiana doesn't need."

Want to talk about it? You can discuss this story via the "comments" feature (click below), or in the new GamePolitics Forums...




(37 comments) - (Post a new comment)

Just.. Wow...
[info]gamejunkiejim
2006-05-28 03:09 pm UTC (link)
I can't understand what his deal is. None of his arguments make sense. The law of averages is against him, common sense is against him, the facts are against him, and currently - the law is against him. What the hell is his problem anyway? I mean, he can spew sunshine up our butts in a taped interview, and state that games contain artistic merit, then go on to attempt the exclusion of digital media from the first amendment.

And I'm kinda sad that you had to make the LJ comments so restrictive. Yeah, it means less of his trolling, but I always considered him a joke, he never answered questions, kinda just showed what a fool he was.

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Re: Just.. Wow...
[info]gamepolitics
2006-05-28 03:34 pm UTC (link)
to be honest, I'm kind of sad about that too, since it makes a lot more work for me.

In the end, I did it for the best interests of GP readers.

We are working on moving GP to another blog format, however, so hopefully the comment process will be less cumbersome.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Just.. Wow...
[info]gamejunkiejim
2006-05-28 03:54 pm UTC (link)
Well, good luck to you with all that. I've only posted once or twice before, but anonymously. I joined LJ as of an hour ago simply to post here. Hopefully whatever you do will turn out to be as visible.

Great forums, by the way.

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Re: Just.. Wow...
[info]baconninja
2006-05-29 02:54 pm UTC (link)
Dude, didn't I see you on the Game Junkie forums a few months back?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Just.. Wow...
[info]gamejunkiejim
2006-05-29 03:02 pm UTC (link)
You might have, but I don't live near that store and I kinda just stopped going. I stay on Bungie.net more than anything else, but I moderate the forums there.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Just.. Wow...
[info]baconninja
2006-05-30 11:51 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I figured as much, but I got excited when I saw your name here. Just had that whole "small world" factor

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Just.. Wow...
[info]loopychew
2006-05-30 07:53 am UTC (link)
Does he still submit a lot of stuff that we don't happen to see, or is the effort mostly based around letting us through?

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[info]udx
2006-05-28 03:46 pm UTC (link)
It's stuff like that makes me shake my fist in anger, Donald Duck-style.

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[info]kajex
2006-05-29 11:35 am UTC (link)
Dude, his fighting stance used to make me laugh when I was little. It still does. XD

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]ianc14
2006-05-28 03:47 pm UTC (link)
"All of the 'Grand Theft Auto' games are designed to be played on the PlayStation 2 with the 'dual shock' controller. This hand-held device gives you a pleasurable buzz back into your hands with each kill. This is operant conditioning, behavior modification right out of B.F. Skinner's laboratory."

I still cant belive hes pushing this bs.

I really dont know what to say back about this, but i have been replaying GTA 3 recently and the "buzz" doesnt do anything for me....


(im still waiting for him to have a go about Rockstars Table Tennis game)

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[info]gamepolitics
2006-05-28 04:22 pm UTC (link)
I find the vibrations annoying in general...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]ianc14
2006-05-28 04:24 pm UTC (link)
Table Tennis uses them very well, as an aid to help you out instead of shaking when you hit the ball etc.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]gamejunkiejim
2006-05-28 05:28 pm UTC (link)
Not to mention there is absolutely no way for a 1/2 ounce weight to approximate the recoil of shooting a gun.

WTF, pleasureable buzz? Is he holding the controller against his crotch or something?

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Thompson no baka
[info]kincyr
2006-05-28 05:41 pm UTC (link)
I find the vibrations annoying in general...
me too, I think the vibration is wrecking my controller so I disable them. The controller vibrates when you run for crying out loud.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]cyn1c42
2006-05-28 09:48 pm UTC (link)
I had to turn off the vibrations playing Call of Duty 2, they almost became painful

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[info]goodrobotus
2006-05-28 10:38 pm UTC (link)
Not only that, but if my computer keyboard starting giving me a pleasurable 'buzz' I'd be pretty worried about it. Since my keyboard is the interface of choice for me with almost all games except flying sims, I've never actually used a controller that 'buzzed', but personally, I think I'd find it more distracting than pleasant, in effect, it drags you out of the absorbtion factor, not further into it.

Anyway, my mobile phone vibrates when it rings, does that mean it's trying to brainwash me into using it more or something?

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]sigma_7
2006-05-29 02:21 am UTC (link)
I really dont know what to say back about this, but i have been replaying GTA 3 recently and the "buzz" doesnt do anything for me....

Most likely, it's one of the few games that doesn't use buzzing in an annoying fashion. That's about it.

FYI, The more correct term is "Force Feedback". The controller has vibration sensors and motors that cause shaking in situations (e.g. loss of control, weaponfire, etc.) With my controller, these motors are generally loud and feel as if I were holding a pnumatic drill.

With most controllers on the market, any attempt to give a pleasurable buzz to encourage killing would end up with the opposite effect. Even if the controllers had a proper implementation of Force Feedback, such a feature would repel players because of previous conditioning.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

What are the chances of this bill NOT passing?
[info]bigman_k
2006-05-28 03:49 pm UTC (link)
With all the editorials against such legislation (with the exception of Thompsons i didn't see one that is for it) and with a large number of gamers in LA probably contacting their senators to vote to vioce opposition to the bill, is there a good chance it won't make it past the senate committee vote? I sure hope so.
Like come on now, these senators got to know it's unconstitutional and will cost millions worth of taxpayers money that SHOULD be going too WAY MORE IMPORTANT things to defend in court and then have to pay the plantiffs court fees once it's sturck down.

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[info]gamereviewgod
2006-05-28 04:02 pm UTC (link)
This may be a dumb question, but is there any way for any of the public to view/speak at this hearing on Tuesday? If so, anyone in the area that could do something to stop Jack's stupid Dual Shock concept?

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"Expert Witness"??
[info]hsilman
2006-05-28 04:43 pm UTC (link)
I just wanted to tag on that I had the exact same thought. Is there any public access to this hearing? And/Or is there any way we could gte someone from LA to go to it? I do believe your average gamer has just as much credo to speak on the subject as JT(probably more so, because s/he has a general knowledge about the content of the games that seems to far exceed many of these so-called experts!).

Someone could even say they wanted to speak as a member of the video-game industry lobbying group "VGVN"!

All one would have to do is ask on public record about why the LA Senate believes they should drop all this money on an obviously unconstitutional bill instead of on more important matters? No need to even discuss games!

So, any chance of something like that happening?

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]ianc14
2006-05-28 04:28 pm UTC (link)
Oh look, its Jack talking about Bully again, when no one knows what the game will be like!

The makers of the "Grand Theft Auto" games are set to release this summer a Columbine-type simulation game called "Bully" on which teens will rehearse how to take over their schools with bullying by bludgeoning classmates and teachers with bats, sticking their heads into dirty toilets, and rehearsing white-on-black violence with punches, kicks and body slams. This game will be sold to teens throughout Louisiana unless the video game bill becomes law.

Where did he get this white on black bit from, since the pics ive seen where mainly white on white....

"rehearse" hehe, good one.

FRom what ive heard of bully, your fighting against the bullies, not as one. And he says the law will stop this been sold, well what if it got a T?

(Reply to this)

Wow
[info]automancer
2006-05-28 07:16 pm UTC (link)
"All of the 'Grand Theft Auto' games are designed to be played on the PlayStation 2 with the 'dual shock' controller. This hand-held device gives you a pleasurable buzz back into your hands with each kill. This is operant conditioning, behavior modification right out of B.F. Skinner's laboratory."

Oh. My. God. He actually wrote that, in ink, and put it in a newspaper. That's completely laughable and probably makes him out to be an airhead to everyone in Lousiana, who read it. I'm sure the paper does this to garner reaction from the populous. I know my paper does it with the Phelps' Op-Eds from time to time. I'm willing to bet that Thompson's garbage looks pretty similar to anything the Phelps' write.

-Auto

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Wow
[info]elricbrother3
2006-05-28 08:11 pm UTC (link)
I don't want to know where he gets the pleasurable buzz bit.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]thenamelessdan
2006-05-28 08:23 pm UTC (link)
I wrote this as a counter editorial to Jack’s garbage, I have not submitted it to anyone or anything like that, and even if I did, I doubt they would print something from someone outside of the state. I basically just wrote this as kind of a "form letter" I can modify and use in message boards, comment sections etc. when ever this particular lie pops up.

Political Vendettas or “Grand Thief Auto” Which Game Is Truly Harming Our Children?

I am deeply saddened by the misinformation that is contaminating the legislative process and putting the welfare of our nation’s children at risk. Miami attorney Jack Thompson in his recent editorial piece “Proposal is needed to prevent a Louisiana 'Columbine'”, as well as his testimony in front of our lawmakers, did our children a great disservice.

He claims: “The FBI and Secret Service found, in studying all the school shootings up to and through Columbine, the one common denominator was the immersion of the perpetrators in violent entertainment” Neither the FBI nor the Secret Service have ever said anything of the sort. It is true that the Secret Service in it’s report, “The Final Report and Findings of the Safe School Initiative”, found that “Over half of the attackers demonstrated some interest in violence” they also noticed that “there was no one common type of interest in violence indicated” and that Thompson's preferred target of immersion in violent video games was present in only 12 percent of cases. The FBI in its report, “The School Shooter: A Threat Assessment Perspective”, also makes it explicitly clear that “No one or two traits or characteristics should be considered in isolation or given more weight than the others. Any of these traits, or several, can be seen in students who are not contemplating a school shooting or other act of violence” and both organizations empathized the fact that “There is no accurate or useful "profile" of students who engaged in targeted school violence.” and “there is no set of traits that described all–or even most–of the attackers.” Quite clearly, there is no common denominator. Furthermore, neither the FBI nor the Secret Service made as much as an intimation of the relationship between violent media and school violence being casual in nature and the Secret Services in fact said, “Many adolescents are fascinated with violence and the macabre, and writings and drawings on these themes can be a reflection of a harmless but rich and creative fantasy life”

The rest of Thompson editorial equally misrepresents the work of various media researchers and organizations, but further critiquing Thompson’s faulty research will not help our children any more then Thompson’s personal grudge against the video games industry will. What will help our nation’s children is establishing as policy the FBI’s and Secret Service’s actual recommendations, which are the polar opposite of Thompson’s misguided approach. Rather then trying to find some sort of common denominator, the research properly concluded that a milieu of factors were responsible for each of these tragedies and that anything short of a comprehensive threat assessment approach will not prevent these tragic from occurring.

Therefore, I ask you citizens of Louisiana; with a well research model of threat assessment sitting in front of us can we honestly afford to ignore the real research on this issue? With this in front of us, can we honestly afford to indulge the myopic, personal vendetta of a biased media advocate? Can we honestly afford to have another Columbine?

(Reply to this)

wow just wow
[info]hilaryduffgta
2006-05-29 12:38 am UTC (link)
"All of the 'Grand Theft Auto' games are designed to be played on the PlayStation 2 with the 'dual shock' controller. This hand-held device gives you a pleasurable buzz back into your hands with each kill. This is operant conditioning, behavior modification right out of B.F. Skinner's laboratory."




he was able to even write that...man that reeks of bullsh**

(Reply to this)

Idiot.
[info]winnie_tee
2006-05-29 07:52 am UTC (link)
Well unlike previous times, he actually referenced Skinner this time... unfortunately that doesn't mean jacksquat as he still doesn't seem to understand the concepts of operant conditioning.
Now REZ and its vibrator accessory...that gives a pleasurable buzz lol

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[info]speckman
2006-05-29 08:37 am UTC (link)
"All of the 'Grand Theft Auto' games are designed to be played on the PlayStation 2 with the 'dual shock' controller. This hand-held device gives you a pleasurable buzz back into your hands with each kill. This is operant conditioning, behavior modification right out of B.F. Skinner's laboratory."

Okay, and how does he explain the PC version then?

Oh, though I'm assuming it does, does the Xbox controller have a rumbly pack?

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[info]gamepolitics
2006-05-29 11:38 am UTC (link)
Xbox & 360... yes

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[info]longtimelurker
2006-05-29 08:27 pm UTC (link)
I wonder what he will say about Grand Theft Auto IV on the PS3 which doesn't have a rumble pack?

Notice he doesn't mention the pc versions which don't have rumble or that numerous games have rumble that aren't violent at all.

Besides it isn't a shock.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Hmm
[info]gray17
2006-05-29 03:23 pm UTC (link)
Well on the flip side of all of Thompson's BS, it's nice to see that the local papers realize that the legislation is a horrendous waste of time and money, which is something their state really doesn't need right now. You know, with the next hurricane season about to start and them not fully recovered from the last one.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Hmm
[info]gamepolitics
2006-05-29 03:47 pm UTC (link)
it's actually pretty amazing how the papers have lined up against this. If memory serves, we've now linked to seven different newspapers who have ripped the bill... none that have supported it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Hmm
[info]beardoggx
2006-05-30 01:48 am UTC (link)
Technically, its six papers. The Houma Courier had two seperate editorials a week apart.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Hmm
[info]gray17
2006-05-30 11:42 pm UTC (link)
It's probably that the state of things down there has people being a little more critical of the government than usual. They've got all of the problems that they've had, plus all the fallout from hurricane Katrina to deal with. Plus a new hurricane season is starting up.

Given that Louisiana's never had a particular problem along the lines being talked about, and that they've got so many other problems at the moment, it doesn't take a genius to ask "Do we really need to address this issue now? You know, when we've got all these more pressing issues at hand, and all these other states are still failing to hammer out the bugs of similar laws? Don't we have better things to spend our money on than being guinea pigs for a new law?"

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]crimson_mage
2006-05-29 03:53 pm UTC (link)
behavior modification right out of B.F. Skinner's laboratory.

Because, you know, Skinner wasn't totally owned (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verbal_behavior) by Noam Chomsky or anything.

So I guess, to Thompson, we're all just stimulus-response machines?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]goodrobotus
2006-05-29 05:09 pm UTC (link)
I think Thompson compares all people to the way he himself thnks, which is not a very complimentary mirror to hold up to anyone, and doesn't say good things about the way he thinks.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Found it.
[info]timed95
2006-05-29 11:56 pm UTC (link)
From beardedferret

"Operant Conditioning is a pretty old school of thought, originally created by a bloke who liked to put his cat in a box. It's been two years, I'm fuzzy on the name, but the concept has stuck.

So you want to Condition somebody. Operantly. The idea goes that you can control the repetition of an action by providing good or bad stimulus following the action. To increase an action, you can offer positive reinforcement (a reward) or negative reinforcement (taking away a bad stimulus). To decrease the occurance of an action, you can either offer punishment (subjecting the... er... subject to a negative stimulus) or offer a negative punishment by taking away a positive stimulus. Easy enough to deal with so far, right?

So let's apply what we just learned to your statement that in its roll as a "biofeedback device", the PS2 Dual Suock is a tool of conditioning.

Vibration occurs in the GTA games:

-When you fire a weapon
-When you are involved in a vehicle collision
-When you are in close proximity to an explosion.
-At other times, often dictated by the game's script.

Interestingly, vibration does not explicitly take place during a murder. In fact, it's entirely possible to pick up a new assault rifle, sod around firing it into the middle distance (without pedestrians in the way), track your aim around and kill a pedestrian as it spawns. Will the game present you with reinforcement for doing so? No - the level of vibration remains constant.

Now, as we know from subsequent studies into operant conditioning, reinforcement must be offered consistantly to properly develop a conditioned response. Not only is the "reinforcement" of the vibrating controller not consistant based on individual murders, it's hard to argue that a vibrating controller would act as a reinforcement at all. Does the vibration cause pleasure? Depends on how you play, but more often than not the answer is no. Does the vibration cause pain? Again, depends on where you stick it, but often, no. The vibration of a Dual Shock therefore is not a stimulus that should be associated with Operant Conditioning and should not be considered such in future communication with anybody, ever.

Learn2Psychology."

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Even under the Skinner findings....
[info]timed95
2006-05-29 11:39 pm UTC (link)
he still gets it wrong. Let me see if I can dig up that explanation, it was very good, having been written by a psychology student, but also very long and I don't believe they'd like to write it again.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


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