gamepolitics: New Site Helps Settle Those Video Game Trivia Arguments

Game Politics (

gamepolitics) wrote,
@ 2006-05-20 06:55:00

Entry tags:

carnegie-mellon, gidb, jabrwock, jesse schell

New Site Helps Settle Those Video Game Trivia Arguments

In the wake of E3 and its high-profile unveilings of the Nintendo Wii and Sony PlayStation 3, arguments have raged over whose console stole whose feature, and which system maker is really the most innovative. Wouldn't it be nice to know for sure?

Perhaps there's a way to find out.

The BBC is reporting that Pittsburgh's Carnegie Mellon University has created a website designed to answer just such questions.

The Game Innovation Database (GIDb) will be a Wikipedia-style resource for games, hardware/services, and innovations. Currently the site has accumulated over 400 entries, including "First use of in-game research" (Armada 2525, 1991) and "First Game with Cooperative Play" (Fire Truck, 1978).

Professor Jesse Schell of CMU's Entertainment Technology Center, a member of the team behind the idea for GIDb, explained it's importance:

"We have created the Game Innovation Database in order to create a historical record of which innovations appeared when, and why they are important... So many videogame innovations have occurred so fast that there is a danger that many fascinating and important innovations will be forgotten."

The site will serve as a great trivia tool to answer burning questions such as which game was first to employ a sunlight sensor (answer: Boktai, 2003) or attach a microphone to a controller (Famicom, 1983). Perhaps more importantly than settling gamer disputes, the GIDb provides an ongoing reference, allowing game designers to look back on what their predecessors have created.

The GIDb is currently looking for gamers to contribute material, as well as for those interested in game development to apply to the editorial board.

-Taking a short break from playing Moon Patrol at his local arcade, GP Correspondent Colin "Jabrwock" McInnes

(Post a new comment)

	Pretty nice nightwng2000 2006-05-20 12:12 pm UTC (link)
	It's just getting started from the looks of it. Wiki format. The GTA games are very incomplete, that's how I know it's just getting started. Uh oh.... "sources". I hope sources for this are a little more open. It alread includes Little Computer People. Very wise. :) No Life & Death I or II. Hmph! Very nice, yes, very nice indeed. nightwng2000 (Reply to this)

	joshdavis271 2006-05-20 12:53 pm UTC (link)
	this site is awsome, thank you jabrwock for point this site out. (Reply to this)

	pope_guilty 2006-05-20 01:38 pm UTC (link)
	It looks like a mess at the moment. The amount of inanity is astounding. Did Wikipedia once look like that? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	westacular 2006-05-20 11:42 pm UTC (link)
	That was my exact reaction. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	finaleve 2006-05-20 02:30 pm UTC (link)
	thats very interesting, and very very cool. It'd be awesome to see all the innovations and see how far we have progressed and backtracked (by now, its not a theft between nintendo and ps3, because its actually been done a long time ago, back in the atari days) (Reply to this)

It's good but still needs a lot of work

traiklin
2006-05-20 04:11 pm UTC (link)

I like it and am looking forward to where it will be heading and how helpfull it will be but...

Looking over some of the stuff it doesn't date that far back.

Clicking on "First Use of Sticky Grenades in an FPS" takes you to a description of the Plasma grenades in Halo, Sure it has them the only problem is Goldeneye was the first game to use Sticky bombs (sure it's not the EXACT same thing but it's in the same ballpark) and that pre-dates Halo by a few years (I think Timesplitters even uses sticky bombs/grenades).

but as I said I am looking forward to it and hope it continues to grow and expand like Wikipedia, cause it would be nice to have a big database of video game information to just referance.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: It's good but still needs a lot of work nebloof 2006-05-20 06:57 pm UTC (link)
	actually, I think it was Perfect Dark instead of Goldeneye that has the stickies. But it's been ages since I played Goldeneye, I can't really remember. I know for sure that Perfect Dark utilizes sticky bombs. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: It's good but still needs a lot of work no_relation 2006-05-20 07:34 pm UTC (link)
	Actually, Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight (released in 1997) had the rail detonator, whose secondary fire mode had the sticky bombs. Quite fun, especially when you get shot by one and you see this grenade stuck to your HUD, and you have enough time to think to yourself "Oh SH--" before you go boom. (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: It's good but still needs a lot of work

traiklin
2006-05-20 08:01 pm UTC (link)

Now that you mention it you might be right.

I don't know if they were actually sticky bombs or if it was a glitch in the game, but in Goldeneye you could throw a bunch of the mines anywheres you wanted and you could throw them on top of one another, I used to do that a lot, Turn on infinite ammo and just keep stacking them, I got about 50 in a row before they started to dissapear (I think, just like you it's been ages since I last played it).

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: It's good but still needs a lot of work finaleve 2006-05-21 12:57 am UTC (link)
	i believe they were called mines in the game. Proxy, det, and timed mines if i recall correctly...the shortened version since thats what i remember. I think Perfect Dark had it, but then again, it wasnt popular no matter how awesome it was or how it is the true successor to Goldeneye (seeing as they are both from the same company) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	caster13 2006-05-20 06:07 pm UTC (link)
	It isn't that hard to prove the Wii-mote came first is it? Tokyo Game Show 2005 (Wii-mote) vs. E3 2006 (PS3 controller). (Reply to this) (Thread)

	finaleve 2006-05-21 12:59 am UTC (link)
	Its not like the wii-mote came first to begin with. An artice i read earlier said the the original motion-sensor controller was actually on the Atari 2600. So technically they are recycling. (Reply to this) (Parent)

nintendo copies too

joystickgenie
2006-05-21 02:09 am UTC (link)

The Star Wars Saga Edition Lightsaber Battle Game came out last year(and there were others like it before that) and the Microsoft Sidewinder Freestyle Pro came out in 2002.

There were plenty of motion and tilt sensing controllers way before Nintendo did it. Remember when VR was the hot thing years back. That era brought plenty of this stuff. It just didn’t get very mainstream.

And honestly the ps3 remote is way closer to the Microsoft Sidewinder Freestyle Pro then the Wii remote anyway.

That’s one think that has annoyed e a bit going though that website. The vast majority of records are completely wrong and you could tell the writer didn’t know what they were talking about. Like saying the Zelda was the first game allow the Use of Free Exploration. That is ridiculous, adventure for the Atari 2600 just about any MUD.

The website will take a long time to get good info because right now it is just full of people who can only think of the big uber popular titles and are giving them credit for everything.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: nintendo copies too caster13 2006-05-21 03:44 am UTC (link)
	I don't doubt that motion sensor related games or systems existed previously. But I'm just talking strictly between the Wii and PS3 controllers. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	thecardinal 2006-05-21 05:32 am UTC (link)
	But what about the Power Glove! Tee hee. It's going to be a long time before that site starts having anything that could be considered credible. (Reply to this) (Parent)

leyviur
2006-05-20 06:50 pm UTC (link)

I still find this argument of 'technology stealing' completely absurd. So Sony took an example from Nintendo - they didn't even use the whole thing, just a small part of what the Wiimote could do - and gamers' reactions were so negative and hilariously overblown that you'd have thought Sony had caused Nintendo's bankrupcy, not used their new controller as inspiration. To the people who are still whining about 'technology stealing,' was the light bulb invented so one person could use it exclusively while everyone else was stuck with candles? Was the oven invented so that people had to continue roasting their food over an open fire? It's the way the world works, Jesus. Get with the program.

Arguments like this is why I hate to be called a 'gamer' and refuse to refer to myself as one.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	pope_guilty 2006-05-20 11:48 pm UTC (link)
	Considering the timing of both the incredible explosion of crappy Mario 64 knockoffs for PSX and the relative timing of the two companies' introduction of force feedback, I'd say Sony has a serious innovation problem that Nintendo has been solving for years. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	finaleve 2006-05-21 01:01 am UTC (link)
	The wii-mote is not exactly Motion sensored to begin with. it's more like a light gun function that anything. And i feel ya, but everyone whines about anything that doesnt seem right... (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

longtimelurker
2006-05-21 04:18 am UTC (link)

The thing is Sony after Nintendo unvieled the wiimote is that it was a gimmick and it would flunk.

Basically Sony dissed the entire idea and just unviels a tilt motion controller the Warhawk developers admit they only had ten days to implement it? It's Sony's attitude that gets people enflamed.

Sony also said they had to scrape the rumble since it interefered with the tilt sensor. Which is garbage since the wiimote has rumble and several periperhals with a tilt sensor have had rumble in them as well. Sony doesn't want to admit they lost the patent fight over rumble tech they stole. Heck the company they stole the tech from has said they will offer Sony the solution to have rumble in the PS3 controller Sony just has to pay 90$ million dollars.

Nintendo's innovations with the wiimote is how many different things the wiimote makes natural. It isn't a light gun get it through your head. It doesn't light at it works with projection tvs light guns don't work with them. Also Nintendo is considered the innovater since they have often perfected what an earlier company did and made it mandatory.

If Nintendo hadn't come out with rumble modern game controller wouldn't have it. Same with self correcting analog sticks.

Zelda is considered one of the best early free roaming games since when you defeated the game it wasn't the true game. Basically Nintendo expanded upon things.

Nintendo does have a lot of credits in innovation.

Prior to the wiimote controllers with a tilt were considered highly unrealiable. Watch the Sony E3 press conferance video the guy almost rips his arms off playing with it. It's not very natural to play with on that shape controller.

The wiimote on the other hand can replicate a flight stick or a racing wheel very easily and the buttons can easily be grapped without fouling up the gameplay unlike the PS3 controller.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

longtimelurker
2006-05-21 04:26 am UTC (link)

Here are some comments that show Nintendo is angry about stolen from.

"Microsoft and Sony have borrowed Nintendo's ideas - from the invention of the D-Pad to the Rumble Pak - in the past. The veteran executive demonstrated Nintendo's paranoid fear that competitors might similarly try to steal Revolution's technology and cited this as a primary reason why the company has yet to reveal all about the machine. "One of the reasons we're not giving a lot of details about the design of the new console prior to its release is that there's no way we're going to let that happen again." -Perrin Kaplan (D.I.C.E 2006)

This link is to an interview by the Nintendo head of the UK branch, http://www.mcvuk.com/newsitem.php?id=1039

“Historically we’re always developing new things. We know Sony have had a lot of issues with their rumble feature and they’ve had to withdraw it – because they didn’t innovate, they copied. With Nintendo, I’m trying to think of anything we’ve copied... but I can’t.”

As any historian can tell you the proper credit for an innovation can often be given to the person or company that perfected it rather then the first one to come up with the concept. Penicillian for instance the guy who discovered it didn't do a thing with it. It was up to others to come up with the antibiotic from it.

The inventor of the horseless carriage last I heard isn't known. One guy has a patent but others actually built the thing. Ford didn't invent he mainstreamed the production.

Mind you some improvements to existing innovations are so revolutionary they should be considered the inventor rather then an improver.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	eatenbyfangirls 2006-05-20 07:13 pm UTC (link)
	Woah, go Carnegie Mellon. I'm going to be going there in the fall for computer science and I'm starting to like it more and more. : ) (Reply to this) (Thread)

	gamepolitics 2006-05-20 07:27 pm UTC (link)
	'grats! CMU is very well regarded. Will Wright mentioned to me a couple of years back at E3 that he was super-impressed with the program as well as the quality of the student interns Maxis had in from CMU. Good luck there... (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

longtimelurker
2006-05-21 05:19 am UTC (link)

Btw Nintendo isn't bankrupt. They make close to a billion dollars a year. They made about a billion off the gamecube on hardware and software sales.

Sony on the other hand has made a lot less on the PS2. Nintendo is one of the most profitable hardware makers and software makers on the planet.

Sony is a conglermate like Microsoft. Microsoft has lost 12 billion so far on the xbox. Nintendo in over 30 years has always made a profit. Only once did they take in much less then they expected. Sony on the other hand is often billions in debt and has laid tens of thousands of employess off.

A lot of people don't know the intricies of whom invented what about gaming or who did it first. Nintendo is repsonible for a lot of the controller and hardware innovations we see today.

Heck they could be considered the first wireless console maker due to the AVS back in 1984. It had a wireless keyboard, tape recorder to record game data such as saves and even make games, wireless controllers, wireless lightgun, wireless music keyboard wireless joystick.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	What I'm going to do enmitywithin 2006-05-21 03:23 am UTC (link)
	I'm gong to wait a month or two, until I'm in summer holiday and that place is upadated a bit. then I'm going in armed with the truth to tear it a lot of new ones (Reply to this)

onzanokooya
2006-05-21 06:44 am UTC (link)

I've been a Nintendo loyalist since I was 8, and MY first reactions to the Wii were, "Please let 'Wii" mean something in Japanese that isn't so lame" and "Oh, great. ANOTHER remote control to lose."

I hope Nintendo can prove me wrong, but Wii looks like suicide.

As for the arguments and claims of copying... well... sounds to me like another "Decline of Video Gaming" flash needs to be created.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	gamepolitics 2006-05-21 12:29 pm UTC (link)
	Wii looks like suicide To me Wii looks like solid gold.... (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Wii thabor 2006-05-23 03:46 pm UTC (link)
	Sorry can't resist the bad joke.. I think we can all compromise.. Wii is liquid gold.. (Reply to this) (Parent)

muhammed
2006-05-22 03:41 pm UTC (link)

This thing looks like a good idea that has been horribly executed. Plus, some of the items get rather specific. Like first use of using a stylus for input in a rhythm game, and first use of stylus to input magic spells. While others don't, like the first use of Interactive Music, which they give to Rez. Well that's fine, but what definition of interactive music are they using. Crossfading between different tracks upon an event in the game is essentially the first use of interactive music and that would not have been Rez.

A lot of problems with the site, but perhaps it will get better.

(Reply to this)

	Not very useful thabor 2006-05-22 05:21 pm UTC (link)
	Unless they do a better job researching. I'm pretty sure the original Civilization had research, and came out before 1991. And I'm also sure there was something else even earlier than that.. (Reply to this)

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