gamepolitics: California's Leland Yee Trashes ESRB, Take-Two Over Oblivion

Game Politics (

gamepolitics) wrote,
@ 2006-05-04 12:58:00

Entry tags:

bethesda, esrb, hot coffee, legislation, leland yee, oblivion, ratings

California's Leland Yee Trashes ESRB, Take-Two Over Oblivion

The fallout continues.

Yesterday, of course, the ESRB abruptly changed the rating of Bethesda's Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion from T (13 an older) to M (17 and older) based upon some extra blood and gore as well as a user mod which allowed players to create topless female characters.

Moments ago, the office of California Assembly Speaker pro Tem Leland Yee (D) issued a press release in which Yee savages both the ESRB and Take Two Interactive, co-publisher of Oblivion.

"Take Two Interactive just doesn't learn," said Yee. "It was only ten months ago that this same publisher deceived parents by first putting hidden sex scenes into their already ultra-violent video game and then lying about the fact that they allowed the content to be included."

Yee also criticized the game rating process used by the ESRB for not evaluating the entire content of the games it reviews. On this, the Assemblyman's press release says, "Unlike the movie industry's rating board which reviews the entire content of a film, the ESRB rates games based on very limited viewing of the game and rely almost entirely on information provided to them by the game manufacturer."

"While the retailers may have been made aware of the re-ratings, how many parents are still unaware that these games include such graphic content," added Yee. "In both instances, thousands of children had already purchase the game as well as many parents who bought the game thinking it may be appropriate for their child. Take Two Interactive continued to receive all profits and was not penalized in any way."

"The ESRB again has failed our parents and clearly has shown they can not police themselves," Yee continued. "Plain and simply, the current rating system is drastically flawed and here is yet another reason why we need legislation to assist parents and protect children."

The timing of the Oblivion flap and Yee's response has an ironic California twist. Next week lawyers for the game industry will face off against the California Attorney General before a federal judge in San Jose to argue the fate of California's 2005 video game law, which Yee sponsored.

At present Yee is also involved in a tough three-way primary battle for a seat in the California Senate.

The ESRB declined to comment for this report.

Want to talk about it? You can discuss this story via the "comments" feature (click below), or in the new GamePolitics Forums...

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	bigman_k 2006-05-04 05:35 pm UTC (link)
	..."At present Yee is also involved in a tough three-way primary battle, for a seat in the California Senate"... I hope to God Leland Yee loses and then is out of politics for good. Aren't there more important things too worry about then video games Mr. Yee. (Reply to this)

	That didn't take long did it? duncan_922 2006-05-04 05:36 pm UTC (link)
	No they're not ambulance chasers... No they are not attention wh*res... It's just that all the problems of the world have been resolved, so this is the only thing that justifies their existance! Yeah right! (Reply to this)

	Hmmm the entire game pirce 2006-05-04 05:36 pm UTC (link)
	Do I even need to make a comment about the differences in the lengths of movies and games? (Reply to this)

	Oh I do declare startropics 2006-05-04 05:41 pm UTC (link)
	"Unlike the movie industry's rating board which reviews the entire content of a film, the ESRB rates games based on very limited viewing of the game and rely almost entirely on information provided to them by the game manufacturer." Because watching a two hour movie maybe twice is just as simple as playing a 10-to-80 hour game twice. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Oh I do declare lost_watcher 2006-05-04 05:46 pm UTC (link)
	O_o Children playing oblivion? The game is way over their heads. Yes, they 'could' play it but they wont understand the game itself. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Oh I do declare -

bigman_k, 2006-05-04 05:58 pm UTC

Re: Oh I do declare -

pixelante_ninja, 2006-05-04 07:47 pm UTC

Re: Oh I do declare -

origamifrog, 2006-05-04 09:37 pm UTC

Re: Oh I do declare -

pixelante_ninja, 2006-05-05 10:06 am UTC

Re: Oh I do declare -

_thiefofhearts_, 2006-05-05 08:58 pm UTC

	frifri 2006-05-04 05:49 pm UTC (link)
	Hah! He said "ultra-violent." Horrorshow! (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Well then... lost_watcher 2006-05-04 05:57 pm UTC (link)
	They might wanna pull Castlevania: Symphony of the Night off the shelves then. Why? Cause in the belltower at the very top you can see a topless statue in the game that has... NIPPLES! (Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) -

bigman_k, 2006-05-04 05:59 pm UTC

	chrisswiss83 2006-05-04 05:54 pm UTC (link)
	They should put ratings on sketchpads and pencils because you can totally draw boobs with those! I bet Take Two manufactures those as well! (Reply to this)

	again these bigits hide the facts sundaos 2006-05-04 05:58 pm UTC (link)
	gimme a break, the nudity was put there by a third party modder, not the publisher. When will these people ever learn to stop thinking of their agenda and publish the real facts. (Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: again these bigits hide the facts

winnie_tee
2006-05-04 06:19 pm UTC (link)

Exactly. The nudity isn't even IN the game, you can only see it using user created mods. Even if Obliv didn't support modding, people always find ways to modify and hack PC games for these sort of things, you can't blame the developer/publisher for these things.
It's like someone editing a Disney cartoon and making all the characters naked, and then Disney getting the blame for it.

At least no one has jumped on the necrophilia thing in Oblivion yet! Well it's suggestive necrophilia anyway, there's an elf shopkeeper who asks you if you know what the fine is for necrophilia, and it's implied that she has been fined for it before in Morrowind.

You can check out a short video clip of the conversation HERE for those who don't have the game.

made me laugh :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: again these bigits hide the facts -

nedlum, 2006-05-04 07:53 pm UTC

Re: again these bigits hide the facts -

jesdk, 2006-05-05 09:10 pm UTC

	sir_bissel 2006-05-04 06:01 pm UTC (link)
	Didn't Bethesda take all the blame for this one? So what was Take 2 sposta learn? and does the guy realize that, while it's reasonable to have someone watch every 2 hour movie that comes out to rate it, it's not so reasonable to have someone play ever 20-50 hour video game that comes out and release them in a decent time frame? WTF? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	ianc14 2006-05-04 06:47 pm UTC (link)
	Didn't Bethesda take all the blame for this one? As i said beloew, i think he took no notice of that. Probably on purpose. (Reply to this) (Parent)

ianc14
2006-05-04 06:02 pm UTC (link)

"Take Two Interactive just doesn't learn,"
Didnt read the press release did he?

Take Two didnt submit it to ERSB, that was all Bethesdas work.

Oops.

"Unlike the movie industry's rating board which reviews the entire content of a film, the ESRB rates games based on very limited viewing of the game and rely almost entirely on information provided to them by the game manufacturer."
Games are at least 10 times as long as the average film......

Again, Opps.

"In both instances, thousands of children had already purchase the game as well as many parents who bought the game thinking it may be appropriate for their child. Take Two Interactive continued to receive all profits and was not penalized in any way."
A child playing an in depth RPG like this? lol fine what ever. Theres Take Two again.

"Plain and simply, the current rating system is drastically flawed and here is yet another reason why we need legislation to assist parents and protect children."
How abput working WITH the ERSB instead of trying to legislat them.

(Reply to this)

semperar
2006-05-04 06:04 pm UTC (link)

I used to defend Yee as a responsible and sensible person is this struggle, and now he outright disgusts me.

He is personally trying to instigate a moral panic among outraged parents by screaming that the ESRB is totally untrustworthy. His blatant ambition is to create an unruly mob with himself at the center of it. This runaway-politicking is despicable.

Didn't he say, after the failure of the California game law, that he was leaving the issue alone?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	gamepolitics 2006-05-04 06:05 pm UTC (link)
	yes, he did. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) -

semperar, 2006-05-04 06:12 pm UTC

(no subject) -

bigman_k, 2006-05-04 06:19 pm UTC

residentlune
2006-05-04 06:24 pm UTC (link)

I'm probably in the minority when I say this ... but Yee does have a point about the ESRB only looking at snippets and clips of a game, and not taking in the full content.

Before anyone jumps down my throat about it, though ... really, what is 1-2 extra days before a game is released so that a couple of pro gamers can be hired, play through the game a couple of times, while ESRB executives or members watch the game and take notes of every little detail, then determine an accurate rating and descriptor for the game?

I'd rather wait 2-3 more days for a game to be released than give Yee, Thompson, Clinton, or whoever you can think of any additional ammunition. At least this way if "easter eggs" are found, the ESRB can use this as a legitimate excuse to say they looked at everything they could.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

traiklin
2006-05-04 06:40 pm UTC (link)

the main reason they don't is cause it wouldn't work well.

You have a pro gamer who might love a series and go out of their way to hide things they know are in the game or might be in the game.

Then you have the ones who think they are gods gift to gaming and no one can stand to be around long enough.

But you mainly run into the problem with length, take an RPG for example, they can last upto 180 hours (Dragon Quest VIII) so that's an extra week and a half that the people they ask to rate and play the game have to come back and that's nonstop watching & playing and that's only inf they can complete the game within the 180 hours.

Sure for action games it's a no brainer that it would work since they last about 30 hours and are usually pretty quick.

Sometimes it amazes me to see a series that has NEVER had a T rating and has always been M show up with a RP sticker on it, Hitman is the example I am going with, Does anyone honestly think it will be anything lower then an M? The ads have a woman with a bullet hole in her head and another has a guy with strangulation marks around his neck.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) -

crtiger, 2006-05-04 11:18 pm UTC

(no subject) -

scazza, 2006-05-04 06:48 pm UTC

(no subject) -

residentlune, 2006-05-04 07:07 pm UTC

(no subject) -

scazza, 2006-05-05 04:59 am UTC

(no subject) -

muhammed, 2006-05-04 07:00 pm UTC

Well I guess you haven't played Oblivion... -

xgunn3rx, 2006-05-04 07:02 pm UTC

(no subject) -

kapper, 2006-05-04 07:05 pm UTC

...

scazza
2006-05-04 06:34 pm UTC (link)

As much as I like the ESRB, NO BLAME should fall on Take Two OR Bethesda. They submitted an OBVIOUS M game, and even said in Bethesda's press release that they checked the boxes that were approiate, including the highest level of blood and gore.

If you ask me, ESRB should do a "You are welcome to try" meet and greet. Where they round up all the game bashers (hillary, Lee, JT, etc) put them in a room, and tell them to rate a game. They give them the entire assets to the game, including the game itself, and ask them to assign the approiate rating. (It should be an obvious kids game, but hidden deep in the code would be a naked person, or the assets to BUILD a naked person with a hack.).

(Reply to this)

Unrated!

traiklin
2006-05-04 06:35 pm UTC (link)

why doesn't bethadia just come out and say they wanted an Unrated version of the game just like the MOVIE INDUSTRY does on a weekly basis?

after all how many movies are forced to be released with a rating?

I can go to walmart, bestbuy, shopko you name it and find 20 movies that are unrated, yet they have absolutly no problem carrying these movies, yet if a video game company decided "hey let's release this game without bothering to get it rated" Walmart would shit it's pants, Bestbuy would have a heart attack and all these people who claim they are "helping the children!" (I didn't realize that children are now considered the age of 30 since that's the average age of gamers now) would piss their pants in excitment over the lawsuits they can file.

I still wish the video game industry would just go ahead and sue the government for double standereds, They go after the video game industry relentlessly yet when the Movie industry does something worse they don't even bat an eye.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Unrated! demon_jd 2006-05-04 07:16 pm UTC (link)
	Because if I had to start paying more for the "Unrated Special Edition" of say, God of War (or Elder Scrolls, or whatever), I'd be hella pissed. (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Unrated! -

thejury_rigged, 2006-05-05 02:40 am UTC

Re: Unrated! -

akbarthegreat, 2006-05-05 02:07 pm UTC

Re: Unrated! -

thejury_rigged, 2006-05-05 07:42 pm UTC

Re: Unrated! -

traiklin, 2006-05-05 02:09 pm UTC

	demon_jd 2006-05-04 07:15 pm UTC (link)
	Ok, this nipplehead is really getting under my skin. 1) "User mod" is not equal to "Take Two put topless bitches in the game." 2) The ESRB is policing themselves. They voluntarily changed the rating. Moron. (Reply to this)

Mr.Yee....

jindewinter
2006-05-04 07:16 pm UTC (link)

Please get off the "Save the Children Banwagon" and do some research before you say anything. This topless mod was made by a modder, not Taketwo. It wasn't hidden content, all you are doing is trying to pull in more votes for yourself from the soccor mom crowd.

"The ESRB again has failed our parents and clearly has shown they can not police themselves," Yee continued. "Plain and simply, the current rating system is drastically flawed and here is yet another reason why we need legislation to assist parents and protect children."

No Yee, the ESRB is out there to educate parents. It is the parents who have failed their children.

(Reply to this)

	Let me say that... elricbrother3 2006-05-04 07:23 pm UTC (link)
	I knew this was coming. (Reply to this)

	shinobo 2006-05-04 07:28 pm UTC (link)
	Who the hell is playing Oblivion as a kid? (Reply to this)

Yee, you are officially a hypocrite and can no longer claim to promote games.

enmitywithin
2006-05-04 08:22 pm UTC (link)

"Take Two Interactive just doesn't learn,
now if only this was Take-Two, and if only Take-Two was a developer and not a distributor, then it would be right flipflop

"It was only ten months ago that this same publisher deceived parents by first putting hidden sex scenes into their already ultra-violent video game and then lying about the fact that they allowed the content to be included."
yeah, the PUBLISHER. and the publisher doesn't play the game the entire way through. so why are you ad-hominem-ing them?

"Unlike the movie industry's rating board which reviews the entire content of a film, the ESRB rates games based on very limited viewing of the game and rely almost entirely on information provided to them by the game manufacturer."
not really. you cannot expect someone to play the ENTIRE game before it is released? have you any idea the psychological effects that would happen?
Not to mention that the Movies are still misrated.

"In both instances, thousands of children had already purchase the game as well as many parents who bought the game thinking it may be appropriate for their child. Take Two Interactive continued to receive all profits and was not penalized in any way."
the difference: GTA SA was rated MATURE originally. so those copies o the game were sold wrongly. and once agin you believe that it's T2's fault because they were the publisher. do you blame a publisher of a book for a pornographic book if it is accidently made to look like and marketed as a child's book? no, you punish the author.

"The ESRB again has failed our parents and clearly has shown they can not police themselves
it has been said before and it will be said again. the ESRB CANNOT be responsible for added content.

"Plain and simply, the current rating system is drastically flawed and here is yet another reason why we need legislation to assist parents and protect children."
plain and simply, your out of your godamned mind.

(Reply to this)

	Where's Jack? ferrarimanf355 2006-05-04 08:31 pm UTC (link)
	It's been one day, and we still haven't heard him issue a "this will be the death of the ESRB and video games" press release. He would issue those withing five minutes of this. Was he napping or something? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Where's Jack? gamepolitics 2006-05-04 08:47 pm UTC (link)
	tough to post when he knows I'm screening everything now... (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Where's Jack? -

ianc14, 2006-05-04 08:51 pm UTC

Re: Where's Jack? -

gamepolitics, 2006-05-04 09:14 pm UTC

Re: Where's Jack? -

ianc14, 2006-05-04 09:28 pm UTC

Re: Where's Jack? -

father_time89, 2006-05-04 11:44 pm UTC

Re: Where's Jack? -

beardoggx, 2006-05-05 01:10 am UTC

Re: Where's Jack? -

cecil475, 2006-05-05 03:27 am UTC

Re: Where's Jack? -

ferrarimanf355, 2006-05-05 04:43 am UTC

Yee is an Idiot

doomgaze3
2006-05-04 08:34 pm UTC (link)

Because he obviously has no idea how much more content is in games than in movies.

"Unlike the movie industry's rating board which reviews the entire content of a film, the ESRB rates games based on very limited viewing of the game and rely almost entirely on information provided to them by the game manufacturer."

So, Yee, would *you* like to flip through absolutely every mesh, sound, line of text and texture in the entire game? I didn't think so. Relying on content supplied by the developers is the ESRB's only hope of evaluating the content of games in a timely manner, especially games the size of Oblivion. And seriously, if the developer packages one bad texture in the game (and, let's be honest, a nipple is a fairly easy to reproduced texture, mathematically) they have to re-rate it M because some 14 year old that can't get laid decides to mod the game? ESRB needs to get some balls.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Bonus Content

thejury_rigged
2006-05-05 02:47 am UTC (link)

"Unlike the movie industry's rating board which reviews the entire content of a film, the ESRB rates games based on very limited viewing of the game and rely almost entirely on information provided to them by the game manufacturer."

Yeah, I love how (probably) every minute of extra content not shown in theaters is "not rated", and nobody accepts responsibility for anything said in commentaries and features added for a DVD release.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

apathyislife
2006-05-04 09:01 pm UTC (link)

Few questions.

Can the state of California really afford a government videogame rating board that looks over every image, and line of code in a given game? Aren’t they haven’t financial issues as is?

Additionally, if they did have such a board, theoretically, wouldn’t the red tape hinder an industry that theoretically contributes a healthy dose of revenue for the state of California?

Maybe I’m completely off the mark here, but these are kinda my first instincts.

I guess I’m kinda disappointed across the board here. I have a lot of respect for Bethesda… but why did they feel it necessary to add nipples to the meshes? Also, I know esrb is in a panic after the hot coffee scandal, and while I can’t imagine this issue will go beyond a few curt words via desperate politicians, but talk about bad publicity. Yeah, it’s a great way to demonstrate that the esrb is trying to be pro-active, but you think the soccer moms are going to care? I sometimes am under the impression that… while the esrb is functional, that they have to alter their business practices to portray a more… consistent approach to rating games.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Nipples! froggersrevenge 2006-05-05 02:04 am UTC (link)
	I haven't actually looked at the mesh, but it's my understanding that the textures for the female topless models were based on the textures for the male topless models, which naturally have nipples. They use the same skin textures for the rest of the body, so it makes sense to just copy and tweak (no pun intended). (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Nipples! -

apathyislife, 2006-05-05 07:11 pm UTC

	8bitpixelrobot 2006-05-04 09:02 pm UTC (link)
	"Today, disney rapidly withdrew their family favorite, "the little mermaid" from the shelves and hastily re-certificated the movie 18, because it had become apparent that people were able to draw massive, terrifyingly detailed penii and female genitalia on the box sleeve" Disney was not available for comment. (Reply to this)

I'm surprised....

phoenixzero
2006-05-04 09:13 pm UTC (link)

Okay, not really.. This has been that "hipocrat's" MO for a long time now. He's trying to get the ever so popular ignorant parent vote. It's odd how he still hasn't gone after EA with the Sims deal, oh wait, no it isn't. T2 is an easy target who had nothing do really do with this issue other than being the company that publishes it, I don't recall them having any actual role in making the game.

I still haven't played Oblivion, don't know if I want to either, I'd probably get hooked on it. That and I'm on dial up and I doubt that'd work too well.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: I'm surprised.... hilaryduffgta 2006-05-04 11:29 pm UTC (link)
	Oblivion isnt a online game so as long as you got a decent compy you should be able to run it but u will wanna check first to see if you got everything you need (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: I'm surprised.... -

phoenixzero, 2006-05-05 01:50 am UTC

Re: I'm surprised.... -

braindead1, 2006-05-05 03:37 am UTC

	Yee is mistaken again aresef 2006-05-04 09:19 pm UTC (link)
	Had he read Bethesda's statement, he would know the publisher hid nothing. This was purely the result of modders. And I knew he'd try to pin this on T2. (Reply to this)

jargon_john
2006-05-04 09:20 pm UTC (link)

Time to quote!

"Take Two Interactive just doesn't learn,"

And neither do politicians...

thousands of children had already purchase the game

Yeah, cause I bet children have the attention span to play these types of games.

as well as many parents who bought the game thinking it may be appropriate for their child.

Buy a T-rated game for a child under the age of 13? Shame on the parents, I say...

yet another reason why we need legislation to assist parents and protect children.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. Because parents are SOOO incapable of protecting their own children nowadays from, gasp!, videogames!

x-posted to forums.

(Reply to this)

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