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Try and wrap your head around this legal conundrum: Can a company be held responsible for identity theft committed in order to spoof the company's ID verification system?
Lawyers in Korea seem to think so.
Last month, GamePolitics and other news outlets reported on the story of Chinese gold-farmers being hunted down on Lineage servers by South Korean gamers frustrated by ninja-looting. (Pixelantism in its purest form?)
The Chinese gold farmers were apparently using stolen identities to sign up for Lineage accounts, because the servers in question are restricted to South Korean players.
Last week, vnunet reported that a class-action lawsuit has been filed on behalf of the more than 230,000 South Korean victims of identity theft. The defendant? NCsoft, makers of Lineage.
Although the official Korean I.D. numbers were not stolen from NCsoft servers, the lawsuit claims $1,000 in damages per incident because the numbers were nicked by underground gaming syndicates and used to register hundreds of thousands of Lineage accounts. Lawyers claim that since NCsoft profited from the criminal activity (via monthly MMO fees) they should be held at least partially responsible.
NCsoft is also accused of facilitating the mass identity theft since its registration system requires government I.D. numbers (as do most South Korean MMO publishers).
For its part, NCsoft has denied responsibility, maintaining it registered what turned out to be bogus accounts in good faith. The company has set up a website for South Korean residents to check whether their government I.D. was used to set up a Lineage account. NCsoft has also begun banning known Chinese IP addresses in order to preempt future abuses.
Korea's Information Ministry announced that it is working with online game companies to develop an alternate method for verifying identity. Officials are discouraging MMO operators from demanding government I.D. There are also plans to bolster monitoring by South Korea's Cyber Terror Response Center, which has asked for China's assistance in tracking down the perpetrators.
So far there are no reports of identity theft related to other NCsoft games such as City of Heroes, City of Villans, Guild Wars, and the upcoming Auto Assault, although these aren't as popular in Korea as Lineage and Lineage 2.
J: I imagine it's also hard to ninja-loot or gold-farm in City of Heroes or Auto Assault... although according to VGCats having one's kill "punked" could be an issue...
-Jabrwock
March 8 2006, 12:58:02 UTC 6 years ago
If I'm following their logic correctly...
We should sue credit cards and banks of we're victims of identity theft?March 8 2006, 12:58:13 UTC 6 years ago
Re: If I'm following their logic correctly...
*ifMarch 8 2006, 13:26:31 UTC 6 years ago
Re: If I'm following their logic correctly...
If the bank is at-fault for the theft? Quite possibly.Honestly though, they're quite lucky that all the "chinese" did was register Lineage accounts..
March 8 2006, 13:47:21 UTC 6 years ago
Re: If I'm following their logic correctly...
This would be more like if someone stole your credit card and bought something from WalMart, then you sue WalMart for allowing it to happen since they proffited.Of course, that's still technically incorrect since these people's IDENTITIES were stolen, not their CREDIT CARD (and, from what I understand, they weren't damaged at all financially). To me it mostly sounds likely these victims are just being greedy little piggies wanting something for nothing. They should come here to America, they'd fit right in. :/
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March 8 2006, 13:01:54 UTC 6 years ago
Ohhhhhh....K
Hee hee, first post! ;DAlright, so they're going to hold the company partially responsible for what they have no control over. True, they're doing something about it, but it's not the company's fault. MMO fees are something everyone has to pay for, it's not like the company gave them permission to not pay.
Anyways, identity theft ties in with the monthly fees. They I.T victims still have to pay, but that is not the company's fault. Perhaps the lawyers should actually target the real bad guys: the gold farmers?
March 8 2006, 17:11:30 UTC 6 years ago
Re: Ohhhhhh....K
Actually no. The phony accounts were never really discovered by the victims in part because the gold farmers apparently dutifully paid the monthly fees. So NCsoft never sent any bills to the victims asking for payment.
That's what's so confusing about this. The lawsuit is less about the damage that HAS been caused (none, the stolen ID's have not been used for anything BUT Lineage accounts, which were fully paid, so the victims aren't on the lamb for any outstanding fees), but rather damage that *could* happen due to criminals possessing legit government ID numbers.
March 8 2006, 13:03:08 UTC 6 years ago
Shoot...
Bissel beat me to first. He must have posted while I was writing.Darn. :(
March 8 2006, 13:13:52 UTC 6 years ago
Re: Shoot...
MwahahahaMarch 8 2006, 13:14:28 UTC 6 years ago
Well....
Well like was said in the previous topic of gold farming and buying virtual items it comes down to there being a market for the product.My feelings are that if you feel you have to buy gold to have fun in the game you shouldnt be playing the game to begin with as it must be too difficult for you and buying gold just supports the people making money selling the stuff.
no demand = No supply, and its the supply that is causing the problem in this case.
March 8 2006, 15:24:49 UTC 6 years ago
Re: Well....
That really isn't sound economic reasoning. You seems to be ingoring the fact that there is a demand for gold/gil/credits. A fairly large demand if IGN's profits are any proof. A large demand ensures a large supply, or prices would go through the roof. A simple ebay check shows WoW gold prices, for instance, are fairly low (roughly $10 per 100 WoW gold). I fail to see how you theorize the "supply ... is causing the problem in this case."
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March 8 2006, 13:52:15 UTC 6 years ago
March 8 2006, 14:24:42 UTC 6 years ago
Seriously though, look good-looking clothing/armor designs up in EQ2/WoW/CoH and compare it with those from L2. You'll see that the only mmo's coming even NEAR L2 are SWG and AO, and those two games are dying already! (SWG's entertainer-class, anyone?)
While it's groovy enough to have huge raids, sieges and countless other party-pvp events right outside your town of choice, having to look at 4-500 people running around wearing the most ugliest comboes of craptitude the net has ever seen... It really gets to your nerves at some point.
March 8 2006, 17:33:14 UTC 6 years ago
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March 8 2006, 15:28:22 UTC 6 years ago
*sigh*
Why in the hell would NCSoft be responsible for anything a gold farmer does? It isn't like they just hand out other people's info to them so they can ruin a game. I think the only reason the suit was filed is because they can't track down and sue the gold farmers using the stolen info so they go after the big company saying it is their fault their clients got their info stolen.March 8 2006, 17:17:49 UTC 6 years ago
Re: *sigh*
The twisted argument goes that since NCsoft required Korean government ID to sign up for an account on a Korean server (in an attempt to stop gold farming companies from China), they "encouraged" the gold farmers to steal legit ID's so they could circumvent the company's ID check...
I feel like my brain will as'plode... :P
It's like arguing that a bar that requires photo id to enter is somehow responsible for the kid who goes and steals someone's wallet to use their id. If the photos are similar, and the is no reasonable reason to assume the id is fake/stolen, how is the bar supposed to tell?
I'm glad the Ministry is working towards some kind of "online game" ID that is seperate from the government ID (equiv to SIN), but the lawsuit itself is silly.
March 8 2006, 17:14:22 UTC 6 years ago
Logic ? Where are you ?
If your car gets stolen, and the thief goes on a crime spree, is Ford(or any other carcompany) responsible for the theft of your car and the crimespree ?
Or better yet, if someone uses your name (With correct credentials making that someone seemingly to be you) to buy a car, is Ford responsible for the illegal activity of identity theft, even thou Ford is profiting ?
March 8 2006, 17:20:22 UTC 6 years ago
Re: Logic ? Where are you ?
That's exactly it.
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March 8 2006, 18:26:19 UTC 6 years ago
Re: Logic ? Where are you ?
I think, and this might be stretching the example, that if it was designed by Ford that the only way to go on a crime spree was in a Ford, then they may hold some liability in it.The thing we need to remember is that this is Korea where laws may differ from what we have over here and such a claim may have more weight. Especially when it comes to MMO's where there is a MAJOR issue with the way they have real effects on real life over there.
March 8 2006, 17:37:46 UTC 6 years ago
so... according to their lines of logic
that means I can sue my school for quite a bit in stolen fries taken from me by bullies?or I can sue the government mint if someone steals my wallet?
or I can sue dennis for stealing my valuble time away from me?
NO.
if you think any one of the scenrarios could actually happen, you are mistaken. this is insanity.
March 8 2006, 18:19:11 UTC 6 years ago
As much as I hate Lineage2...
I don't think NCSoft was in the wrong.Well they kind of are about profitting from the adena trade in game, and then encouraging players do that while their TOS says "Thou shalt not buy adena online"... but anyway
I don't think it's NCSoft's fault that anyone got a hold of their numbers to create these accounts.. It's not like NCSoft was selling the numbers to Chinese people.
March 8 2006, 23:04:04 UTC 6 years ago
Re: As much as I hate Lineage2...
The best thing NCsoft can do is find out what accounts are stolen IDs report that to the korean goverment to see if the stolen accounts are being used for anything else then get the Chinese goverment to put some bullets in some gold farmers. There is no five or twenty years waiting for a death penalty in China. In a few weeks you get taking out to a football field with about twenty other convicted criminals an army guy walks behind you, presses his gun to the back of your head and pulls the trigger. Then they take your organs out and put them in people waiting for a heart transplant or other such organ.March 8 2006, 18:21:48 UTC 6 years ago
Actually if you check out the farming sites what they are selling for CoH is Influence - the points needed to purchase neat things for your bases.
March 8 2006, 18:25:41 UTC 6 years ago
I had no idea you could trade those. I figured they were more like WoW experience or quest or skill points. (shows how much I know about CoH...)
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March 9 2006, 00:01:41 UTC 6 years ago
So......
Person A steals an identity, uses it to sign up for an account, the company that the account is with is held responsible.Person B steals money, uses it to buy groceries. Is the grocery store responsible for the theft, as they "profited from the criminal activity"?
Bull. Pure bull.
March 10 2006, 01:44:49 UTC 6 years ago
I just can't see the people actually winning the lawsuit. NCSoft was in no way profitting or at least trying to profit intentionally. How the people got these identities is the real problem, and if anything they should get them.
Attacking NCSoft in this situation reminds me of that lawsuit where a thief broke into someones house. the owner took his gun and shot him in the foot, the got sued by the thief for damages. I dont if that is true, but i heard that some time long ago.