Game Politics ([info]gamepolitics) wrote,
@ 2006-03-02 05:51:00
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Entry tags:game ratings, keith vaz, legislation, manhunt, uk

Keith Vaz Introduces Game Legislation to UK Parliament

Labor MP Keith Vaz, a frequent critic of video game violence, has introduced a bill which would force games sold in the UK to display content descriptors as well as a larger, more prominent rating label.

In describing his proposed legislation, Vaz said, "Video games have increasingly life-like graphics and antisocial themes. Their regulation has improved, but it has not gone far enough. The voluntary code must be made statutory...

"The video games industry in the United Kingdom is widely and rightly seen as one of our many economic success stories... The Bill is not intended to censor the industry. However, we must recognise that it is our duty to protect our children from inappropriate influences such as violent video games.
"

Gamasutra, meanwhile, finds "Vaz's demand for larger labeling is peculiar given that age rating symbols have recently been increased for titles... rated by the British Board of Film Classification. All games also indicate exactly the content contained within them according to the European PEGI ratings system."

Gamasutra notes that Vaz was formerly Minister of Europe before being forced to resign in a scandal over citizenship applications. The site also report that Vaz has been dogged in his home district of Leicester East by allegation of dirty politics.

For his part, Vaz continues to beat the drum concerning Manhunt and its supposed connection to the murder of a 14-year-old British lad in 2004.




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One for the UK Members to field I think.....
[info]goodrobotus
2006-03-02 03:26 pm UTC (link)
In 2004 there were 590 Deaths through drink driving and over 17,000 injuries, Road Rage is a growing problem, yet cars are still legal.

There were over half a million incidents of Domestic violence in the UK in 2002-3 and it is rising.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/09/20/1095532183569.html?from=storylhs

A Serial attacker who uses a Hammer and doesn't appear to play computer games. At least 6 attacks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/3674479.stm

Another Hammer murderer with multiple victims and no computer games.

I will try to find the correct address to contact to point out that simply because 1 murderer who used a Hammer had Manhunt proves absolutely nothing, as tragic as the Murder is.

(Good job I copied that lot ;) )

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: One for the UK Members to field I think.....
[info]jdmdsp911
2006-03-02 06:17 pm UTC (link)
Actually, wasn't the victim in that murder the owner of the game, not the murderer? If it is the same murder that I am thinking of.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: One for the UK Members to field I think..... - [info]catch_33, 2006-03-02 06:34 pm UTC
Ironic.
[info]anticron
2006-03-02 03:27 pm UTC (link)
"parents perceive age ratings as a guide but not as a definitive prohibition".

[...]

This is not about adult censorship; it is about protecting our children. We need to act now before it is too late.



Ironic that in order to protect the children, GB finds it necessary to remove the children from the parental discretion. Will they also supply childcare on the government's bill, or will they simply take away all parental rights one by one?

It is, effectively, adult censorship.

It would seem that China is the New Role Model™ in which the government decides everything for the inhabitants.

(Reply to this)

Hrm.
[info]fedule
2006-03-02 03:31 pm UTC (link)
Didn't the courts find that Manhunt WASN'T responsible for the Stefan Pakeerah? In fact, didn't they find that the game belonged to Stefan, rather than his murderer? And that the whole thing was over money or something stupid like that?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Hrm.
[info]ace_ofspade
2006-03-02 03:46 pm UTC (link)
I'm not good with names... are the The-Guy-Who-Got-Murdered-Owned-The Game-Manhunt case and the one Vaz is talking about the same one?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Hrm. - [info]catch_33, 2006-03-02 03:52 pm UTC
Oops.
[info]fedule
2006-03-02 03:32 pm UTC (link)
I mean "the murder of Stefan Pakeerah". Damn.

(Reply to this)

I don't see what's so wrong with forcing game companies to make better labels
[info]skemodan
2006-03-02 03:34 pm UTC (link)
Not that I think there's any problem with the ESRB, but just forcing them to make more informative ratings labels seems harmless to me. They aren't limiting the sale in any way, they're just enforcing a more harsh ratings system. All ratings systems are enforced by the law already...I think.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: I don't see what's so wrong with forcing game companies to make better labels
[info]galin
2006-03-02 04:18 pm UTC (link)
More informative how? They already tell you in general terms why they got the rating "intense violence, strong language, blood, mature sexual themes" (from the Max Payne 2 box sitting next to me).

Should the rating tell exactly what is in the game? "800 incidents of gun violence". That is impossible due to the very nature of a game.

I don't know about the UK, but in the US there are no ratings systems that are enforced by law. And enforcing the ratings system DOES limit sales, as retailers will be less likely to carry M/AO rated games if they think they might possibly get fined for an accidental sale to a minor.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: I don't see what's so wrong with forcing game companies to make better labels - [info]catch_33, 2006-03-02 04:34 pm UTC
Re: I don't see what's so wrong with forcing game companies to make better labels - [info]tollwutig, 2006-03-02 04:22 pm UTC
Re: I don't see what's so wrong with forcing game companies to make better labels - [info]ianc14, 2006-03-02 05:41 pm UTC
Re: I don't see what's so wrong with forcing game companies to make better labels - [info]devilmaycarefan, 2006-03-02 09:41 pm UTC
What Manhunt murder anyway?
[info]goodrobotus
2006-03-02 03:34 pm UTC (link)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/3538066.stm

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: What Manhunt murder anyway?
[info]catch_33
2006-03-02 03:42 pm UTC (link)
It's amazing how stupid some people can be. Time again, I've pointed out to people like Vaz in letters I've sent that the information they're acting on is incorrect. I offer more than enough proof. No response whatsoever.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: What Manhunt murder anyway? - [info]goodrobotus, 2006-03-02 03:48 pm UTC
Re: What Manhunt murder anyway? - [info]catch_33, 2006-03-02 03:58 pm UTC
Re: What Manhunt murder anyway? - [info]goodrobotus, 2006-03-02 04:02 pm UTC
Re: What Manhunt murder anyway? - [info]ianc14, 2006-03-02 04:01 pm UTC
Re: What Manhunt murder anyway? - [info]catch_33, 2006-03-02 04:04 pm UTC
Re: What Manhunt murder anyway? - [info]odc100, 2006-03-03 01:35 am UTC
Moron
[info]catch_33
2006-03-02 03:39 pm UTC (link)
"Video games have increasingly life-like graphics and antisocial themes."

The graphics are improving, but anti-social themes? I don't think so. There's more multi-player games out there now than ever before. And look at the online gaming community.

"Their regulation has improved, but it has not gone far enough. The voluntary code must be made statutory."

Show me why.

"The video games industry in the United Kingdom is widely and rightly seen as one of our many economic success stories."

Then why don't you leave it the fuck alone like you do with the film and music industries?

"The Bill is not intended to censor the industry."

No, but it sure as hell isn't necessary.

"However, we must recognise that it is our duty to protect our children from inappropriate influences such as violent video games."

What about violent movies? I see no effort on anyone's part to protect children from them. Do people like Vaz seem to think that kid's don't watch movies at all anymore?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Moron
[info]anticron
2006-03-02 03:43 pm UTC (link)
The graphics are improving, but anti-social themes? I don't think so. There's more multi-player games out there now than ever before. And look at the online gaming community.

He means counter-cultural and counter-more themes, but "anti-social" isn't inappropriately used.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Moron - [info]catch_33, 2006-03-02 03:51 pm UTC
Re: Moron - [info]anticron, 2006-03-02 04:14 pm UTC
Re: Moron - [info]heimdal00, 2006-03-02 05:59 pm UTC
Re: Moron - [info]batuniversal, 2006-03-03 06:53 am UTC

[info]ianc14
2006-03-02 03:39 pm UTC (link)
Sheesh, the age ratings are already larger than on dvds, what else does he want?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]catch_33
2006-03-02 03:48 pm UTC (link)
What's funny is, by taking these measures, they make it more painfully obvious to any kid that walks into a game store exactly which titles no one wants him to have. And kids always want what they can't have. They'll go to great lengths to "beat the grown-ups".

JT has said that developers like Rockstar use the M-rating as a marketing tool. Well guess what Jack? This friend of yours from across the pond is trying to make that easier on them. How do you like them apples?

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]markusdragon
2006-03-02 03:39 pm UTC (link)
Hmm... It's quite amusing how little this bill would do actually.

Better start writing to MPs though. This sort of factual distortion shouldn't go without being pointed out.

(Reply to this)

What the big numbers too small for him?
[info]repsode
2006-03-02 03:39 pm UTC (link)
The ratings are larger than those for film here and it's still too small?

Has he seen the BBFC logos on game packaging? They're huge!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: What the big numbers too small for him?
[info]ianc14
2006-03-02 04:00 pm UTC (link)
Doom 3 (Xbox - released before change in size)
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0000A1OQH.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Doom 3 Resurrection of Evil (Xbox - release after)
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000BD8BIE.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

If it gets any bigger it will be bigger than the Producers logo!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: What the big numbers too small for him? - [info]goodrobotus, 2006-03-02 04:18 pm UTC
Re: What the big numbers too small for him? - [info]mors_d, 2006-03-02 10:40 pm UTC
Re: What the big numbers too small for him? - [info]sir_bissel, 2006-03-02 04:31 pm UTC
Re: What the big numbers too small for him? - [info]catch_33, 2006-03-02 04:43 pm UTC
Re: What the big numbers too small for him? - [info]repsode, 2006-03-02 05:22 pm UTC
Re: What the big numbers too small for him? - [info]catch_33, 2006-03-02 05:32 pm UTC
Re: What the big numbers too small for him? - [info]repsode, 2006-03-02 05:43 pm UTC
Re: What the big numbers too small for him? - [info]catch_33, 2006-03-02 06:13 pm UTC
Re: What the big numbers too small for him? - [info]ianc14, 2006-03-02 05:45 pm UTC
Re: What the big numbers too small for him? - [info]sir_bissel, 2006-03-02 05:42 pm UTC
Re: What the big numbers too small for him? - [info]ianc14, 2006-03-02 06:28 pm UTC
Re: What the big numbers too small for him? - [info]catch_33, 2006-03-02 04:02 pm UTC
Pudding?
[info]rich_d7
2006-03-02 04:00 pm UTC (link)
Us Brits just like to be a part of this whole issue and therefore needed a Jack Thompson style campaigner... it's just a shame ours always looks like such a plum-pudding in all the pictures he appears in!

Rich

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Pudding?
[info]goodrobotus
2006-03-02 04:20 pm UTC (link)
I think his teeth were in for maintenance when that photo was taken ;)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Pudding? - [info]rich_d7, 2006-03-02 04:32 pm UTC
Re: Pudding? - [info]tsknf, 2006-03-02 05:17 pm UTC

[info]jennytabby
2006-03-02 04:53 pm UTC (link)
Bah this hardly that bad. I thought this was gonna be one of them ban things or what have you. In any case they can make the agen rating as big as they danged well want but I dont really care. Unless the parents think it's important it's not gonna matter how big and showy it is

BTW if the UK goverment is worried why dont they made some shocking ads to drive the point home violent games are bad some how. Works for speeding, drink driving, smoking and also stops people watching TV

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]matt0677
2006-03-02 06:07 pm UTC (link)
I agree his proposed action seems ridiculous - people can already see the rating and they choose to ignore it. How will making it bigger change this??

The shocking advert idea is interesting but for the life of me I can't think of a way to explain how games lead to mutilation or death within a 30-second slot. Maybe that says something in itself...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]goodrobotus, 2006-03-02 10:44 pm UTC
For goodness ake...
[info]tsknf
2006-03-02 05:14 pm UTC (link)
Video games have increasingly life-like graphics and antisocial themes

And movie sfx have gotten better and on tv too and both of them have begun to deal with more 'anti-socail' topics. Legislate them too Einstein.

However, we must recognise that it is our duty to protect our children from inappropriate influences such as violent video games

Good, but bigger labels won't work Mr.Hawkings.

Gamasutra notes that Vaz was formerly Minister of Europe before being forced to resign in a scandal over citizenship applications. The site also report that Vaz has been dogged in his home district of Leicester East by allegation of dirty politics.

Hmm...are we being completely neutral Dennis? '^_^

For his part, Vaz continues to beat the drum concerning Manhunt and its supposed connection to the murder of a 14-year-old British lad in 2004

Oh yes, wonderful day for the sensationalists of Britain that was.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: For goodness ake...
[info]tsknf
2006-03-02 05:15 pm UTC (link)
*anti-social *ahem* *cough* *ptooey*

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Voluntary?
[info]woundwalker
2006-03-02 05:22 pm UTC (link)
I live in the Uk and I had no idea our BBFC ratings were voluntary. I'm sure that it is illegal to sell 18-rated games to minors.

Am I wrong, or is he?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Voluntary?
[info]repsode
2006-03-02 05:27 pm UTC (link)
He is

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Voluntary? - [info]repsode, 2006-03-02 05:31 pm UTC
Re: Voluntary? - [info]repsode, 2006-03-02 05:33 pm UTC
Re: Voluntary? - [info]bm03, 2006-03-02 05:33 pm UTC
Re: Voluntary? - [info]repsode, 2006-03-02 05:36 pm UTC
Re: Voluntary? - [info]bm03, 2006-03-02 05:44 pm UTC
Re: Voluntary? - [info]markusdragon, 2006-03-02 05:37 pm UTC
Re: Voluntary? - [info]bm03, 2006-03-02 05:46 pm UTC
Re: Voluntary? - [info]repsode, 2006-03-02 06:01 pm UTC
Re: Voluntary? - [info]bm03, 2006-03-02 06:06 pm UTC
Re: Voluntary? - [info]woundwalker, 2006-03-02 06:27 pm UTC
Argh!
[info]heimdal00
2006-03-02 05:42 pm UTC (link)
Do you know what is an "anti-social theme"? This guy's opinion!

Hasn't he read or watched... any media at all!? Depictions of violence are the widest, most common entertainment in the world!

What this guy calls "anti-social" is absolutely more social than anything he's ever done!

(Reply to this)

Antisocial
[info]howdoyouplead
2006-03-02 05:43 pm UTC (link)
I've never been to the UK, but I've noticed that lately this term is being used as a buzzword by politicians quite a bit. What do they actually mean by it? I mean, are people becoming recluses by the droves over there or something? That recent story about that kid who got fined for saying the word "fuck" in public due to antisocial regulations is particularly irksome to me. But this guy obviously is using an outdated stereotype if he thinks games are any more antisocial than books or movies or tv or music.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Antisocial
[info]bm03
2006-03-02 05:50 pm UTC (link)
It ties in with the Anti-Social Behaviour Order system put in place a few years ago by Government, which is a soft way of dealing with petty crime by placing people under house arrest rather than actually doling out a punishment.

It more refers to behaviour which actively drives people away (violence, theft, noise) rather than keeps you away from people, which grammatically would probably be unsocial.

/b

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Antisocial - [info]rammsoldat, 2006-03-02 06:17 pm UTC
Re: Antisocial - [info]bm03, 2006-03-02 06:22 pm UTC
the north american rating system should jump the gun
[info]nsbustin
2006-03-02 05:47 pm UTC (link)
personally i think the esrb should jump the gun and double the size of their rating symbols on the front of video game boxs and add the discriptors (violence, blood, gore etc) to the front as well. that way those who support censorship will find their arguments that the esrb is ineffective or not doing enough less valid and it will be even harder for governments to impose censorship on the production and sale of video games.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: the north american rating system should jump the gun
[info]howdoyouplead
2006-03-02 05:52 pm UTC (link)
I fail to see how making the already prominent labels bigger will change anything. Much of the anti-game legislation isn't really concerned with the size of the labels anyway.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: the north american rating system should jump the gun - [info]winter_b0rn, 2006-03-02 07:31 pm UTC
even if...
[info]zippydsmlee
2006-03-02 05:54 pm UTC (link)
Even if they covered the packageing with soild black and the big red 18 on it they would still complain...

(Reply to this)

Seems a waste of time...
[info]elisatsun
2006-03-02 06:01 pm UTC (link)
Last time I checked it was already a crime to sell games to those under the age restriction on the box, so this seems a little redundant to me.

But that said, I guess larger labels won't hurt anyone. It might make a few parents think a bit harder about the games they're buying for their kids, but those parents who let their very young kids play 18 rated games probably aren't going to give a toss even if the rating was stamped on the cover in 4 inch high numbers.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Seems a waste of time...
[info]bm03
2006-03-02 06:19 pm UTC (link)
It will hurt the British games industry.

The first expansion of size indicated an immediate willingness for the industry to roll over and take whatever the government want to give it. If the industry showed some backbone last time and stood its ground we wouldn't be in this position.

I remind you that of the two countries dominant in the global games industry, neither of them (until recently) had any legally enforced ratings system.

/b

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]markusdragon
2006-03-02 06:12 pm UTC (link)
Anyone got £120 worth of stamps lying around? Only it's going to cost me something like that to send a letter to every single Member of Parliament...

(Reply to this) (Thread)

NARF!!
[info]jdmdsp911
2006-03-02 06:20 pm UTC (link)
Does that picture of this guy remind anybody else of Pinky from Pinky and the Brain or is it just me?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: NARF!! - [info]markusdragon, 2006-03-02 06:28 pm UTC
Re: NARF!! - [info]jdmdsp911, 2006-03-02 06:34 pm UTC
Re: NARF!! - [info]markusdragon, 2006-03-02 06:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bm03, 2006-03-02 06:23 pm UTC
I wonder....
[info]rammsoldat
2006-03-02 06:18 pm UTC (link)
i wonder if that guy who decapitated another guy in the street in london not too long ago was a avid gamer....

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: I wonder....
[info]catch_33
2006-03-02 06:30 pm UTC (link)
These days, it's not hard to find a murderer who has played a violent game or two. It makes it easy for JT to run his mouth, but that's it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: I wonder.... - [info]rammsoldat, 2006-03-02 07:20 pm UTC
Re: I wonder.... - [info]catch_33, 2006-03-02 07:24 pm UTC
Some people just don't get it.
[info]andrew_eisen
2006-03-02 06:24 pm UTC (link)
The current trend in video games is for players to be the bad guys and act out criminal fantasies, earning points for attacking and killing innocent bystanders.

Sure Vaz, whatever you say...


Annual 2005 Top 10 Video Game Titles
Ranked by Units Sold
RANK TITLE PLATFORM PUBLISHER RELEASE DATE ARP
1 MADDEN NFL 06 PS2 ELECTRONIC ARTS Aug-05 $46
2 POKEMON EMERALD GBA NINTENDO OF AMERICA Apr-05 $34
3 GRAN TURISMO 4 PS2 SONY COMPUTER ENT. Feb-05 $49
4 MADDEN NFL 06 XBX ELECTRONIC ARTS Aug-05 $47
5 NCAA FOOTBALL 06 PS2 ELECTRONIC ARTS Jul-05 $48
6 STAR WARS: BATTLEFRONT II PS2 LUCASARTS Nov-05 $47
7 MVP BASEBALL 2005 PS2 ELECTRONIC ARTS Feb-05 $29
8 STAR WARS EPISODE III:
REVENGE OF THE SITH PS2 LUCASARTS May-05 $47
9 NBA LIVE 06 PS2 ELECTRONIC ARTS Sep-05 $44
10 LEGO STAR WARS PS2 EIDOS Mar-05 $37
Source: The NPD Group / Point-of-Sale


Andrew Eisen

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Some people just don't get it.
[info]catch_33
2006-03-02 06:30 pm UTC (link)
Fucking owned.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Some people just don't get it. - [info]xlorep_darkhelm, 2006-03-02 07:24 pm UTC
Re: Some people just don't get it. - [info]phantompvp, 2006-03-02 11:02 pm UTC
Worse, my local MP is involved...
[info]bm03
2006-03-02 06:27 pm UTC (link)
>Bill ordered to be brought in by Keith Vaz, Annette Brooke, Mrs. Betty Williams, Mr. Edward O'Hara, Mr. Elfyn Llwyd, Mrs. Iris Robinson, Jessica Morden, Miss Julie Kirkbride, Mr. Mike Hancock, Sir Nicholas Winterton, Mr. Stephen Crabb and Derek Wyatt.

Might see if I can get some comment out of him. You interested, Dennis?

/b

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Worse, my local MP is involved...
[info]winter_b0rn
2006-03-02 07:33 pm UTC (link)
I think we'd all be interested to read the response. See what your local MP says! Share it with us.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]mandrakegeek
2006-03-02 06:31 pm UTC (link)
Okay... I don't live in the UK or anywhere in the EU... so I had to dig up a bit of info for this one...
Labor MP Keith Vaz, a frequent critic of video game violence, has introduced a bill which would force games sold in the UK to display content descriptors as well as a larger, more prominent rating label.

In viewing covers of some of the videogames that I could dig up on Amazon.co.uk the rating label seems to be of an appropriate size on the case. What I don't understand is that there are three different "review" boards... PEGI, ELSPA, and BBFC. While with similar rating levels, I don't understand why there can't be just one universal review board. That would be like if each state in the US had their own rating board for games and movies. O_o
Was kind of surprised that DVD's have a similar rating label on the front cover... but the videogame "rating" is like twice as big as the DVD rating. If you are going to instill a requirement for one then it
should be instilled in all. All or nothing... period.
Music cd's don't seem to be under the same scrutiny... just the same ol' "Parental Advisory" sticker on the cd cover... I don't understand it when there are albums put out by certain "artists" that are laced with cursing and sexual and violent references... I really don't get it.
When are politicians, whether in the US, EU, or elsewhere going to get the clue that if you try to regulate one form of the entertainment industry you are going to have to step up and regulate all of them?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]matt0677
2006-03-02 06:46 pm UTC (link)
You're right of course, but I have to point out that we don't have a constitution in the UK and the government can pass pretty much any law they like.

On the bright side, it takes more than one MP to pass a law, and he'll need a majority vote to do anything. I fully expect him to be largely ignored by the MP's with actual issues.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]ianc14, 2006-03-02 07:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mandrakegeek, 2006-03-02 07:50 pm UTC
O NOES!!1 TEH PR0N!!!1!
[info]matt0677
2006-03-02 06:41 pm UTC (link)
I want to take this opportunity to bring a few games to the attention of Vaz, Thompson etc. They've been so focused on the Hot Coffee fiasco and Bully for so long that they've missed a few corkers.

Fahrenheit, not rated by the BBFC but with a Pegi 16+ rating, includes TWO interactive sex scenes.

The Nomad Soul, rated 15 (ELSPA), contains at least one sex cut-scene.

Dungeon Keeper 2, 12 (ELSPA), contains a BDSM themed character who moans with pleasure when you put her in the torture chamber.

Max Payne 2, 18 (BBFC), contains sex cut-scenes and rewards prescription drug-abuse.

BMX-XXX, 18 (ELSPA), need I say more!!?


I'm sure this should help those public figures crusade for us, though I'm sure I've overlooked one or two. Of course, most of these games have been out for YEARS without raising any eyebrows. Funny, that.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: O NOES!!1 TEH PR0N!!!1!
[info]ianc14
2006-03-02 07:22 pm UTC (link)
Max Payne 2 is a 15, i swear.

I havent got it near me to check though, but i know i only have 4 or 5 18 rated games on the current gen consoles, and i dont recall Max Payne 2 been one of them

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: O NOES!!1 TEH PR0N!!!1! - [info]bm03, 2006-03-02 07:37 pm UTC
Re: O NOES!!1 TEH PR0N!!!1! - [info]matt0677, 2006-03-03 12:40 am UTC
Re: O NOES!!1 TEH PR0N!!!1! - [info]ianc14, 2006-03-03 01:03 pm UTC
Re: O NOES!!1 TEH PR0N!!!1! - [info]ianc14, 2006-03-03 05:27 pm UTC

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