Game Politics ([info]gamepolitics) wrote,
@ 2006-02-24 08:14:00
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Entry tags:bully, first amendment, hogue, legislation, school shootings, utah

Utah House Overwhelmingly Approves Games-as-Porn Bill

If Rep. David Hogue (R) has his way - and so far he's on a roll - it will soon be a felony to provide a violent video game to a minor in the state of Utah.

As reported by the Salt Lake Tribune, Hogue's bill, HB257, passed the state House of Representatives by a 56-8 vote yesterday. The measure equates violent games with pornography, and would add such games to a Utah statute normally used only to prosecute those who provide smut to kids.

Hogue linked violent games to school shootings, including Columbine.

"Would these same kids have done this anyway without watching violent videos? Maybe not."

Hogue also mentioned Resident Evil 4, the Grand Theft Auto series and Rockstar's upcoming Bully to the Tribune.

"You can get even with bullies. You take a baseball bat and beat up their heads," he said. "It is going to show kids how to respond in school. Is this what we want our kids doing?"

Games which violate the proposed law would need to be "patently offensive to prevailing standards in the adult community" and lack any serious "literary, artistic, political or scientific value for minors."

Republican Rep. Scott Wyatt opined that only the "most depraved" video games would fall under this bill. However, Republican Rep. Margaret Dayton and Democratic Rep. Ross Romero had concerns over the bill's constitutionality.

For his part, Hogue expressed confidence the measure would survive First Amendment challenges. "It will set an example that Utah is a family state," he said.

HB257 will now be considered by the Utah State Senate.

UPDATE: A little more on Hogue's bill can be found in the Provo Daily Herald, including this quote from Republican Rep. Lorie Fowlke:

"I think it is worth a try. Otherwise we give up and say the court will always determine our values."

GP: Here on GamePolitics we have been tracking Hogue's bill closely. As recently as last Sunday we noted an op-ed piece by a pair of well-known First Amendment law scholars who judged HB257 unconstitutional.




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How can...
[info]goodrobotus
2006-02-24 01:45 pm UTC (link)
This prove that Utah is a family state by taking choices away from families and into the hands of legislation?

That doesn't make sense.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: How can...
[info]nozomu
2006-02-24 03:15 pm UTC (link)
Sure it does. They're one big family who hate the Constitution.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Attention attention attention, what more can they ask for?
[info]liveordie2
2006-02-24 01:46 pm UTC (link)
I mean really, David Hogue is really gonna getting on people's nerves and he obviously just jumping for attention.

And oh, is RE4 blamed for bullying in school? I can guarantee that this bill will also be rejected too.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Attention attention attention, what more can they ask for?
[info]revotruthinary
2006-02-25 12:43 am UTC (link)
Wow liveordie2, where ever did you get that avatar?

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]liveordie2
2006-02-24 01:53 pm UTC (link)
http://www.le.state.ut.us/Kids/Kids.html

A Utah State Legisture Kids Page. Tell me what u think.

I respect Utah's care for kids but Hogue is just obviously blaming violent video games for school shooting and all the violence. Then tell me, if video games did make people become violent, then why I play video games and led me into the interests of Bible?

(Reply to this)


[info]spartan_sword
2006-02-24 01:58 pm UTC (link)
How does he reach the conclusion that Bully will make me violent in school? It's just a game. Besides, my parents have taught me right from wrong and I know that hitting someone in the head with a bat to get even with someone is wrong. This man has no logic.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]rockstartobe1
2006-02-24 02:47 pm UTC (link)
I am going to have to agree to the whole no logic.. if parents actually spent time with their kids and Taught them right from wrong then the kids who can't tell reality from the game world would probably exsist just in a smaller portion. Honestly I am not going to run around with a sword and sheild slashing everything that comes in my path while in my green tunic and sock hat (referance to Zelda) and you know I never played a fighting game and immediately ran outside and screamed Mortal Kombat and then friends come out and start fighting with eachother. oh well even though I might have a warpped mind at least i feel somewhat normal in that case, although others will tell you differently..lol.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Hogue is a retard
[info]beardoggx
2006-02-24 02:04 pm UTC (link)
Hogue linked violent games to school shootings, including Columbine.

"Would these same kids have done this anyway without watching violent videos? Maybe not."


Klebold and Harris still would have done it, no matter what. They had that planned for at least a year. The mother of Columbine victim Matthew Ketcher blames Klebold and Harris's parents(and nothing else) for the massacre.

Utah is only wasting taxpayer money because of an idiot whose blinded by ambition, avarice, and greed. Gee, kind of like Nospmoht Kcaj.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Hogue is a retard
[info]nightwng2000
2006-02-24 02:59 pm UTC (link)
Weren't they also victims of bullies at the school as well? If, instead of ignoring the bullying, those in charge had stepped up and punished the bullies in the first place, it's more likely the events that took place would not have happened. At least it would have been far less likely to have happened.

nightwng2000

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Hogue is a retard - [info]tollwutig, 2006-02-24 03:37 pm UTC
Re: Hogue is a retard - [info]acroamatis, 2006-02-24 04:20 pm UTC

[info]yubberducky
2006-02-24 02:04 pm UTC (link)
I'm getting really sick of these guys in suits needing something to blame.

(Reply to this)


[info]gdex86
2006-02-24 02:05 pm UTC (link)
The laws while having heart in the right place, or more likely to keep their butts in the seat following the mid term elections. Its the same thing that happens with the gun users in this country. For every 1 person who uses an illegal gun in the country there are 10 who own it legally, use it safely, and teach thier children to do the same. The question becomes do you make it harder for the 90 percent who are doing it properly or the 10 percent who are total asswipes. Sadly, though I agree with gun control, the way it seems is that people we favor making it harder for the good people rather then leave it alone.

But a felony seems way to strong for some guy who forgot to ask for an ID at a walmart check out. I could see a fine, though nothing as outragous as the 1000 dollar fine that the hawaii bill preposes. For a small mistake like not checking an ID for a video game should not make someone have to scrounge to make rent.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]bigman_k
2006-02-24 02:16 pm UTC (link)
A Felony for this is asinine. Even parents can get jailed for buying their children the games. Anyway, this bill is toast once it reaches the courts. Maybe the governor of Utah will veto, if he's sensible. What's the chances of a governor veto for this.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]semperar
2006-02-24 02:10 pm UTC (link)
I really don't think "family state" is the same thing as nanny state.


(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]bigman_k
2006-02-24 02:58 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, a family state would leave these decisions solely in the hands of the families. This is a nanny state where the government decides what's appropriate or not for everyone and their children.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]acroamatis, 2006-02-24 04:22 pm UTC
Another one to die in the courts
[info]bigman_k
2006-02-24 02:13 pm UTC (link)
Yet another bill that will have to be struck down in the courts. BTW, Who's the governor of Utah, any chance he might veto?

(Reply to this)


[info]ianc14
2006-02-24 02:14 pm UTC (link)
"You can get even with bullies. You take a baseball bat and beat up their heads," he said. "It is going to show kids how to respond in school. Is this what we want our kids doing?"
Oh, hes obviously been reading up on this game unlike other people who say you are a bully in the game.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jindewinter
2006-02-24 02:30 pm UTC (link)
I thought that most of the game's info was still under wraps. How does he know exactly what you are able to do? Did more info on the game come out or is this "info" he got from Jack?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]acroamatis, 2006-02-24 04:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ianc14, 2006-02-24 04:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nightwng2000, 2006-02-24 03:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jindewinter, 2006-02-24 03:38 pm UTC
Fighting back didn't work for me... - [info]pyrrhus9588, 2006-02-24 04:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kharne83, 2006-02-24 05:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]braindead1, 2006-02-24 11:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jythie, 2006-02-24 04:44 pm UTC
Laughable
[info]anticron
2006-02-24 02:20 pm UTC (link)
I find it horrifying that these people consider videogame distribution on par (insofar as punishment) with aggravated assault, arson, burglary, murder, and rape.

Unconstitutionality aside, the punishment proposed is grossly inappropriate.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Laughable
[info]anticron
2006-02-24 02:32 pm UTC (link)
Just a short bit of research shows that Utah finds selling tobacco and alcohol to minors as subject to fines and at most a misdemeanor offense. They are demonstrably bad for (people).

Video games? Not demonstrably bad, and you get (at most) a felony conviction.


How is this even close to reasonable?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Laughable - [info]bigman_k, 2006-02-24 02:56 pm UTC
Re: Laughable - [info]acroamatis, 2006-02-24 04:35 pm UTC
Re: Laughable - [info]anticron, 2006-02-24 05:10 pm UTC
Re: Laughable - [info]automancer, 2006-02-24 10:57 pm UTC
Re: Laughable - [info]tonywonder, 2006-03-01 10:51 pm UTC
Re: Laughable - [info]acroamatis, 2006-03-02 02:28 am UTC
Re: Laughable - [info]acroamatis, 2006-03-02 02:37 am UTC
Re: Laughable - [info]tonywonder, 2006-03-02 03:35 pm UTC
Re: Laughable - [info]tonywonder, 2006-03-02 03:52 pm UTC
Re: Laughable - [info]kylota_kitten, 2006-03-02 03:18 am UTC
Re: Laughable - [info]tonywonder, 2006-03-02 03:57 pm UTC

[info]spartan_sword
2006-02-24 02:20 pm UTC (link)
True, atleast he knows a little more about it than Jack.

(Reply to this)

Wording is fucked!!
[info]bigman_k
2006-02-24 02:25 pm UTC (link)
Even though the bill would be struck down for being constitutionally overboard (violence can't be found obscene to minors or adults) the wording of the bill is so overtly vague and broad that retailers would have no idea which games would be no or off limits to minors in the stores. "Excessive use of weaponary" WTF does that mean? Horrible Bill. Can't wait till the courts rip it to shreds.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Wording is fucked!!
[info]lordlundar
2006-02-24 03:48 pm UTC (link)
"Excessive use of weaponary"

Well, there goes ratchet and Clank.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Screwballing - [info]kharne83, 2006-02-24 05:32 pm UTC
zomg!
[info]illspirit
2006-02-24 02:26 pm UTC (link)
Dayton said the bill was "frustrating." She dislikes such video games but said violence has certain constitutional protections that pornography does not have.

"That's why we can have pictures in the Bible, battle scenes or war movies," she said.


Oh my. A politican was logical and brave enough to point out there's also violence in the Bible?! Send this lady a medal or something! :)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: zomg!
[info]bigman_k
2006-02-24 02:30 pm UTC (link)
Ditto. No doubt she got in shit for the Bible reference.

Fat Ass Quaddruple chin Hogue (in the mitst of eating a twinkie)- How dare you compare the Bible to those evil, horrible, forged in the lair of Satan himself violent video games. Sacrf, Scarf, Scarf, Hey i grew a new chin!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: zomg! - [info]acroamatis, 2006-02-24 04:39 pm UTC
Re: zomg! - [info]1steelcobra, 2006-02-24 02:32 pm UTC
Re: zomg! - [info]acroamatis, 2006-02-24 04:43 pm UTC

[info]1steelcobra
2006-02-24 02:30 pm UTC (link)
While this bill will very likely get shot down as unconstitutional as well, this point of view is not very suprising for a religious group that bans alcohol, tobacco, and fast food yet allows poligamy. The dominant religion of Utah most likely sees things the way he does.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jindewinter
2006-02-24 02:34 pm UTC (link)
Last time I heard Poligamy was outlawed in Utah. I thought the whole Morman with 12 wives ans 30 children was all in the past.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]1steelcobra, 2006-02-24 02:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]1steelcobra, 2006-02-24 02:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jindewinter, 2006-02-24 02:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]1steelcobra, 2006-02-24 02:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jindewinter, 2006-02-24 02:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tsknf, 2006-02-24 02:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]goodrobotus, 2006-02-24 02:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tsknf, 2006-02-24 02:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bigman_k, 2006-02-24 02:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]1steelcobra, 2006-02-24 03:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the1jeffy, 2006-02-24 06:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]acroamatis, 2006-02-24 04:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anticron, 2006-02-24 02:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tollwutig, 2006-02-24 03:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]shubbilicious, 2006-02-24 05:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dutch_gamer, 2006-02-24 09:04 pm UTC
Playing Devil's Advocate... - [info]acroamatis, 2006-02-24 09:13 pm UTC
OK I found it - [info]tollwutig, 2006-02-24 09:50 pm UTC
Distracted by work - [info]tollwutig, 2006-02-24 09:59 pm UTC

[info]konrad_arflane
2006-02-24 02:30 pm UTC (link)
"Would these same kids have done this anyway without watching violent videos? Maybe not."

Quite aside from the issue of whether games caused Columbine, what's with "watching violent videos"? He makes it sound like they spent their time watching Van Damme flicks on VHS. This, more than anything, drives home to me how far these people are from understanding the issues they legislate about.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jindewinter
2006-02-24 02:35 pm UTC (link)
I just wish people like this moron and Jack would stop comparing shit to Columbine, so what the fucktards played Doom, so did millions of other kids.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]bigman_k, 2006-02-24 02:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jindewinter, 2006-02-24 02:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bigman_k, 2006-02-24 03:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jindewinter, 2006-02-24 03:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dachande18, 2006-02-24 05:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tsknf, 2006-02-24 02:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]konrad_arflane, 2006-02-24 04:37 pm UTC

[info]angry_man
2006-02-24 02:41 pm UTC (link)
"We're looking over your shoulder, only because we've got your back"

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]marbledog
2006-02-24 04:54 pm UTC (link)
(chuckle)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]rockstartobe1
2006-02-24 02:50 pm UTC (link)
video games don't make people kill other people.
People make the decision to kill other people because THEY WANT TO!

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]acroamatis
2006-02-24 05:09 pm UTC (link)
<Devil's Advocate Moment>
That would make a GREAT X-Files (or similar, non-terminated show) episode. The evil, demonic video game designed by some malicious programmer to program kids to kill the population of a town that laughed at him as a child. Oooh, ooh, or it's some sort of evil government black-op plot. Any other plot ideas?

</Devil's Advocate Moment>

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rockstartobe1, 2006-02-24 06:59 pm UTC

[info]bigman_k
2006-02-24 03:08 pm UTC (link)
..."Hogue said he vetted the bill appropriately and is confident it could stand up under a court challenge."...

In every single instance like this they say the same thing over and over again and once it reaches the courts it gets struck down as the 100% unconstitutional piece of shit is is. Get over yourself Hogue, put down the fuckin' twinkies, do a little exercise, lose a little weight and see that your law is no different from the rest of them, pure unconstitutional shit. Stop wasting the Utah's people's taxpayers money on this shit.

(Reply to this)

Its very annoying
[info]rammsoldat
2006-02-24 03:25 pm UTC (link)
I find it annoying that people arent allowed to do anything without other people saying they were influenced by some media. I had people tried to bully me back when i was in high school and I fought back, not bacause some megadrive game inspired me too, not because i saw it in a movie but simply because i wasnt going to stand there and let people atack me.

There was one time however in primary school where there was an older boy atacking me on a regualr basis and as i was only small there was little i could do. The schools solution? i should get therapy.....i mean what the hell, i get atacked and they tell me i should see a shrink? my mum was equally outraged and told my big sis to go kick the lads ass and he never bothered me again. I dont advocate violence as a solution to bullying as in my experience it only makes it worse but some kids need to stand up for them selves a little, theres the extreme of doing nothing and then theres the extreme of going on a gun rampage. neither one is wanted.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Its very annoying
[info]goodrobotus
2006-02-24 03:28 pm UTC (link)
It's funny, the old adage about dealing with Bullies is, 'If they hit you, hit them back harder.'. But once a game comes along that 'might' allow you to fight bullies (I've not seen many pictures, but I don't recall any involving baseball bats, only punch-ups) people get up in arms.

Isn't hypocrisy a wonderful thing.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Its very annoying - [info]konrad_arflane, 2006-02-24 04:43 pm UTC

[info]dagrak
2006-02-24 03:37 pm UTC (link)
Honestly, when are these politicians going to learn. Videogames don't cause violence, violence is caused by pixies, the nasty green ones with the black beards and pointy hats. They should be stomping out evil gnomes and goblins, a far worthier goal.




...OK...maybe I shouldn't watch "Whoops Apocalypse" before posting...

(Reply to this)

Let me ask you, in all honesty:
[info]riffraff1138
2006-02-24 03:41 pm UTC (link)
Do we, as a nation, really need Utah?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Let me ask you, in all honesty:
[info]tollwutig
2006-02-24 03:50 pm UTC (link)
Unfortunately yes, it's really the only place appropriate for dumping Nuclear Waste and hiding secret Military testing sites.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Let me ask you, in all honesty: - [info]shock223, 2006-02-24 04:32 pm UTC
Re: Let me ask you, in all honesty: - [info]psyco_chick32, 2006-02-24 04:57 pm UTC
Re: Let me ask you, in all honesty: - [info]acroamatis, 2006-02-24 05:10 pm UTC
Re: Let me ask you, in all honesty: - [info]psyco_chick32, 2006-02-24 06:07 pm UTC
Re: Let me ask you, in all honesty: - [info]wxdiva, 2006-02-24 05:13 pm UTC
Re: Let me ask you, in all honesty: - [info]psyco_chick32, 2006-02-24 06:08 pm UTC
Re: Let me ask you, in all honesty: - [info]blue_exocet, 2006-02-24 07:28 pm UTC
Re: Let me ask you, in all honesty: - [info]nozomu, 2006-02-24 07:42 pm UTC
Re: Let me ask you, in all honesty: - [info]sstaten, 2006-02-24 09:54 pm UTC
"You take a baseball bat and beat up their heads"
[info]sir_bissel
2006-02-24 03:48 pm UTC (link)
I don't know why, but that line made me laugh.

Out of curiosity, did anyone notice this: "a) means anything printed or written or any picture, drawing, photograph, motion
65 picture, video, video game, or pictorial representation, or any statue or other figure, or any
66 recording or transcription, or any mechanical, chemical, or electrical reproduction, or anything
67 which is or may be used as a means of communication["

Does that mean that it'll be illegal if you buy your child McDonalds or a thing of bleach?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: "You take a baseball bat and beat up their heads"
[info]illspirit
2006-02-24 04:13 pm UTC (link)
Whoa! Back the truck up! I hadn't bothered to read the law before, but, now that you quote it, wow. They've basically just added violence and videogames directly into the obscenity law! Which means this law now covers every violent picture, drawing, photograph, motion picture, video, video game, or pictorial representation, or any statue or other figure, or any recording or transcription, or any mechanical, chemical, or electrical reproduction, or anything which is or may be used as a means of communication.

So, yea, if the governor signs it, who's up for a marathon session of calling and e/snail-mailing every police, sheriff, DA, etcetera's office in the state to report every single violent image, word, or sound ever? As in, completely drown them in paperwork so the legislators have to explain to their constituents why the entire state just shut down. I'm dead serious here too.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: "You take a baseball bat and beat up their heads" - [info]marbledog, 2006-02-24 05:00 pm UTC
Re: "You take a baseball bat and beat up their heads" - [info]illspirit, 2006-02-24 05:50 pm UTC
Re: "You take a baseball bat and beat up their heads" - [info]acroamatis, 2006-02-24 05:12 pm UTC
Re: "You take a baseball bat and beat up their heads" - [info]sir_bissel, 2006-02-24 05:20 pm UTC
Re: "You take a baseball bat and beat up their heads" - [info]spudsey, 2006-02-25 03:10 am UTC
Re: "You take a baseball bat and beat up their heads" - [info]sir_bissel, 2006-02-25 06:27 am UTC
Radioactive Family State
[info]tollwutig
2006-02-24 03:52 pm UTC (link)
"It will set an example that Utah is a family state," he said.

And yet Utah is also probably going to have the biggest Repository for Spent Nuclear Fuel Cells in the United States. I'm not sure about anyone else, but to me that doesn't scream family friendly.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Radioactive Family State
[info]rhanlav
2006-02-24 03:57 pm UTC (link)
Sure it is. Didn't they ever teach you about the 'Nuclear Family' model in school? Plus, Nuclear fuel is overrated. Sure it kills you in a painfully slow way that eats you from the inside out, but at least the kids will be safe from violent video games. Yes, they'll have to go other places to get their violent quota, like TV, Movies, Radio, Internet, the family, Other families, School, Society as a whole, News, News about Iraq, News about Afghanistan, News about comic riots in the world... Uh... Did I miss anything?

(Reply to this) (Parent)

You're thinking of Nevada - [info]dog_welder, 2006-02-24 04:21 pm UTC
Maddox is not gonna be happy....
[info]udx
2006-02-24 04:12 pm UTC (link)
About Utah being a Family State.

Utah has sucked for awhile and it's gonna suck even more.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Maddox is not gonna be happy....
[info]razer_2mb
2006-02-24 08:25 pm UTC (link)
Utah still beats Idaho in his books.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


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