gamepolitics: Render Unto Microsoft What is Microsoft's

Game Politics (

gamepolitics) wrote,
@ 2006-02-15 16:38:00

Entry tags:

crosswalk lutheran ministries, infringement, jabrwock, microsoft, trademark, xbox 360

Render Unto Microsoft What is Microsoft's

Concerned about the game... of life?

Hot on the heels of the Canadian Red Cross asking gaming companies to stop treating the "Geneva Cross" as if it were in the public domain, we have yet another story of trademark "borrowing."

ChatterBox Games Show reports receiving a pamphlet from the Crosswalk Lutheran Ministries in Phoenix, AZ. The pamphlet was advertising a "high-impact" series called "Life 360", and had a slightly modified version of the Xbox 360 logo. The program is divided into 4 steps, "Spirit, Heart, Body, and Mind" and says "Admit it - life is not always fun and games. Life is challenging and complicated. And you don't get to 're-start' at the push of a button... we get one shot at life, and then it's 'game-over.'"

The overall pamphlet design was also quite similar to a lot of the print-media Xbox 360 ads. The front page could easily be mistaken for an Xbox 360 ad were it not for the tiny "Crosswalk" logo in the corner.

J: As of the writing of this piece, the Crosswalk church has not yet responded to my query about whether they had spoken to Microsoft, or whether they felt that this falls under "fair use." I was also curious to know if they had considered other mainstream consoles.

I think this one is a little more clear-cut than the Red Cross issue. This isn't just using the logo within a game, historical context or otherwise. This is using someone else's logo, name, and ad campaign style to promote a series of lectures.

-Jabrwock

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(Post a new comment)

	zerochan 2006-02-15 09:50 pm UTC (link)
	Churches using game motifs for promotion is fairly common. I've seen T-shirts with "Salvation" in Playstation logo font with the famous PS mark resembling a cross. (Reply to this) (Thread)

jabrwock
2006-02-15 10:06 pm UTC (link)

Could you find a pic of an example of this?

I think the issue here is not that they used the XBox logo, but used the logo, the name, and the ad style in order to promote a specific church's event.

The t-shirt on the other hand, while it was mocking the Playstation name & logo, was not likely masquerading as Sony shirt. When you saw the shirt, did you immediately think "Gee, when did Sony get into religion?" or "that's a cute parody."

Here the seperation of target and parody is not so clear. "Wow, a new XBox 360 ad... Wait a minute..."

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) -

sir_bissel, 2006-02-15 10:41 pm UTC

(no subject) -

jabrwock, 2006-02-15 10:46 pm UTC

(no subject) -

repsode, 2006-02-15 10:55 pm UTC

	OMG hentai_jeff 2006-02-15 09:55 pm UTC (link)
	something from the chatterbox forum makes it on Game politics in a matter of hours. that's nuts :D (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Days... jabrwock 2006-02-15 10:08 pm UTC (link)
	It was posted on ChatterBox 2 days ago. :P (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Days... -

hentai_jeff, 2006-02-15 10:15 pm UTC

Re: Days... -

funnydale, 2006-02-15 10:21 pm UTC

	jervo 2006-02-15 09:56 pm UTC (link)
	For what it's worth, Xbox's Major Nelson is already aware of this. http://www.majornelson.com/2006/02/14/do-you-see-the-ring-of-light/ (Reply to this) (Thread)

	ianc14 2006-02-15 09:59 pm UTC (link)
	Ex-cellent. Hope they send the wolves after them (Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) -

thecanadianicon, 2006-02-15 10:12 pm UTC

(no subject) -

jervo, 2006-02-15 10:17 pm UTC

(no subject) -

repsode, 2006-02-15 10:58 pm UTC

(no subject) -

psyco_chick32, 2006-02-16 07:49 pm UTC

	sqlrob 2006-02-15 09:58 pm UTC (link)
	I seem to recall something, tickling at the back of my mind... Oh yeah, "Thou shalt not steal" (Reply to this)

	the1jeffy 2006-02-15 10:01 pm UTC (link)
	Are they making profit from the lectures? That would seem to be the real issue and the sticking point in most "fair-use" arguements. (Reply to this) (Thread)

jabrwock
2006-02-15 10:22 pm UTC (link)

Are they making profit from the lectures?

It's hard to say. Are they charging money for attendance? No. Are they gaining more advertising than normal because they are imitating a popular brand? Probably. Did this save them money because pamphlets that would normally have been thrown out got read? Likely. Is this enough to cancel the "fair-use" argument? Probably not.

I think it's more clear-cut than the RC issue, but I'm not sure it's enough to say that they would lose a lawsuit over it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

But are they passing the collections plate? -

acroamatis, 2006-02-16 03:24 am UTC

Lame...

getwellgamer
2006-02-15 10:06 pm UTC (link)

I'm all for using popular culture to attract young people to church (The "Young Life" ministries in the U.S. are particularly adept at this) but to straight-up rip off MS's entire ad campaign is indicitive of either:

a) Laziness,
b) incompetence, or
c) a complete disregard of the company.

Really, it's just lame and they should have cleared it with MS first or at least changed it enough so it wasn't *clearly* infringement.

--Ryan Sharpe
President, The Get-Well Gamers Foundation

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Lame... jbourrie 2006-02-15 10:33 pm UTC (link)
	I think it's probably d) Ignorance The creator of the logo probably didn't even realize that this was illegal use of a trademark. Those who don't understand business, especially the whole baby-boomer generation, are pretty clueless about this sort of thing. I guess they'll learn when they have the Uberbillion dollar Microsoft tearing them in half... (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Well... goodrobotus 2006-02-15 10:07 pm UTC (link)
	Whilst I agree that this is copyright infringment, I don't think it's any less 'clear cut' than the Red Cross thing. Both are using well known symbols without the permission of the symbol owner. The Health Pack thing may be more relevant to the symbol used, but I guess strictly speaking that isn't what the law is about. (Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Well...

jabrwock
2006-02-15 10:13 pm UTC (link)

Both are using well known symbols without the permission of the symbol owner.

There the case was whether you could use the symbol in game. It would have been like whether you could put up an XBox 360 poster on the wall of a multi-player map. Or whether you could portray the Geneva Cross like movies do, as long as it's historically contextual.

Here it's more like can you make a fake XBox 360 ad, and market it in a similar fashion, and only after the marketing has reached people do you tell them you're not actually advertising an Xbox console, but a series of lectures. That could be considered to be advertising under false pretenses...

I don't see these as equal at all.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Well... -

goodrobotus, 2006-02-15 10:21 pm UTC

Re: Well... -

jabrwock, 2006-02-15 10:28 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

eternallegenduk
2006-02-16 06:06 pm UTC (link)

I too think it's a bit far. The point of parody is essentially to mock, and they don't look like they're making fun of Microsoft here. They are instead using recognisable imagery to draw attention to themselves, and that's pretty infringinating right there.

But you do have to question why they went so far. People who don't "do" games aren't going to recognise the design and as such it will be lost on them. People who do will see it and think, "Oh look, a Three Brixty advert." They'll then walk on thinking about buying a new console. Free advertising.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

ouroborous_19
2006-02-15 10:46 pm UTC (link)

I think reworking the logo and such is probably coverd under fair use and parody works. Since it's very blatant who they're ripping off.

Though, if it isn't, I took one look at everyone's avatars and each one of you should be sued for using trademarked characters without the sole permission of the company needed.

Anyway, I doubt Microsoft will pursue legal action. Can you imagine the bad publicity of suing a freakin' church for copyright violations?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

jabrwock
2006-02-15 10:50 pm UTC (link)

I think reworking the logo and such is probably coverd under fair use and parody works.

Probably. But I don't think parody was the intent. If it was, they'd have a stronger case. Instead it seems more like they were capitalizing on the XBox 360's popularity to "sell" their lectures.

I took one look at everyone's avatars and each one of you should be sued for using trademarked characters without the sole permission of the company needed.

I think our use *would* fall under fair use, as we're not actually using the avatars as advertisments for our products... Then again, I'm not sure how the "fair-use" would apply to us either...

Anyway, I doubt Microsoft will pursue legal action. Can you imagine the bad publicity of suing a freakin' church for copyright violations?

Depends if their legal team is as bone-headed as the RIAA's... :P

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) -

tollwutig, 2006-02-15 11:49 pm UTC

	razor5 2006-02-15 10:47 pm UTC (link)
	I'm not sure whether copyright applies here, considering the fact that the logo has been altered. I'm wondering whether it falls into the realm of parody. It does seem as if the X logo has just been rotated, though, and if that's the case, it's a bit cheap. (Reply to this)

	khy 2006-02-15 10:53 pm UTC (link)
	that Life 360 is clever stuff (you turn it a little, and you get an L!) (Reply to this) (Thread)

	goodrobotus 2006-02-15 11:07 pm UTC (link)
	Actually, it looks a little bit like Marvin the Martian ;) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Oh yeah, that's raping a trademark. startropics 2006-02-15 11:07 pm UTC (link)
	Especially when I thought Microsoft was ripping off someone else until I actually read the article. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	..... jaimas 2006-02-16 12:39 am UTC (link)
	Best Avatar. EVER. (Reply to this) (Parent)

I quite like the idea....

cashcleaner
2006-02-15 11:15 pm UTC (link)

...I wouldn't call it a particularly professional-looking logo design, but I don't think anyone at Microsoft is going to get worked up much over it. It's less a parody than it is a homage to a brand of sorts.

Interestingly, I believe that the letter "X" itself is semitic in original , and may have it's use today inspired by the "Crux Decussata" symbol from the Roman Imperial area (about the same time and immediately after Jesus and his apostles were hanging about the middle east).

Interesting...

(Reply to this)

	Familiar mathsucks2 2006-02-15 11:20 pm UTC (link)
	I think my cousin goes to that church, or at least has something to do with it. I live about an hour outside of Phoenix so I might see these around... (Reply to this)

	turbinerocks 2006-02-15 11:32 pm UTC (link)
	Anyone besides me remember those cheeseball Christian t-shirts meant to knock off heavy metal logos? They had a "PRAYER" logo for Slayer, a "MEGALIFE" logo for Megadeth, and so forth. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	I have one of those. jaimas 2006-02-16 12:31 am UTC (link)
	It says "SATAN'S CDS: 666 IN DIGITAL", with a logo of a devil holding aloft CDs before the cowed masses. If ever there was a confusing religious shirt, that would be it. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: I have one of those. -

turbinerocks, 2006-02-16 01:13 am UTC

Man I hate those. -

tweek_20k, 2006-02-16 06:32 am UTC

	how long... shinobi117 2006-02-15 11:36 pm UTC (link)
	Begins timing how long it will take for Microsoft to issue a cease and desist (Reply to this)

	tollwutig 2006-02-15 11:53 pm UTC (link)
	Actually you have to remember Microsoft is a bit guilty off ripping off others in the past, albeit successfully. The most recent is the upcoming Windows Vista, where Alta-Vista is suing Microsoft for infringement, I think Microsoft's answer was to threaten a hostile takeover. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Wha... acroamatis 2006-02-16 03:35 am UTC (link)
	How could Alta-Vista threaten to sue? That'd be like Disney sueing because the name resembles that of Buena Vista.. or the Grand Vista suites... or any number of cities with the word Vista in them... that's easily the most ridiculous grounds for a lawsuit I've ever heard. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Wha... -

tollwutig, 2006-02-16 06:49 am UTC

jindewinter
2006-02-16 12:02 am UTC (link)

*sigh* I really wish people would stop doing this, all it does is make you look like a complete dipshit. Even though they ripped off Microsoft 100% with this Life 360 thing atleast they weren't as bad as the people who came to my house last month. I forget what religion they were from because I couldn't stop laughing my ass off at the pitch they were giving me and my brother. They said that their church was and I am not kidding the R00X0R compared to other churches and us Hardcore gamers could really get closer to God through them. O.o they gave us a pamphlet about their chruch and it was completely in 1337 speak!!! I wish I still had it, the thing was funny as hell.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Jesus. jaimas 2006-02-16 12:35 am UTC (link)
	I was working on my mom's car with a couple of my mom's friends a few years back, when a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses started to come up my drive way. These friends had been drinking heavily, and I had a little as well, so when they got about halfway up, we started bombarding them with unintelligent grunts. Never seen two people in business suits run so fast in my life. (Reply to this) (Parent)

This reminds me vaguely

jaimas
2006-02-16 12:27 am UTC (link)

Of a group of baptists that were handing out pamphlets that looked, from a distance, to be similar to the ones for the GBA A few years back. They were quite similar, but not as deceptive; the inside cover read:

"HOMOSEXUALS WILL BURN IN HELL"

Talk about religious nuts. Did they really think distributing these in anywhere as socially diverse in NYS was a good idea? You'd think so, considering how much they bitched when the cops dragged 'em off.

(Reply to this)

namelessted
2006-02-16 12:51 am UTC (link)

alta-vista can't sue for that. Vista is a word, an english word. it means the visually perception of a region, basically, its what you view from a certain standpoint. like saying that an apartment as a really good vista because it overlooks the ocean or something. one definition of vista is "A distant view or prospect, especially one seen through an opening, as between rows of buildings or trees". which i think is kind of brilliant, its like the users view of the computer through the "opening" of Windows OS.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	sqlrob 2006-02-16 12:58 am UTC (link)
	Remember, MS bought a settlement when "Windows" was challenged, rather than see it out in court. I'm guessing the same type of thing will happen to Vista. (Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) -

l0que, 2006-02-16 02:34 am UTC

I commented on this earlier... -

acroamatis, 2006-02-16 03:39 am UTC

	thecardinal 2006-02-16 01:07 am UTC (link)
	I've seen similar flyers being handed out in front of concerts with the logos of the bands being used. Ex: At a Tool concert... "Are you Satan's Tool or Jesus'?" (Reply to this) (Thread)

Jacko Lantern Is Coming To Town!

somelazydriver
2006-02-16 01:21 am UTC (link)

Why, why, why: will churches never understand that videogames get us closer to unity as a human race? Look at Jack Thompson- he united us against a cause that was bound to happen. I find this man ridiculous, but that's why we are against him. Has it ever occured to him to take a vacation down here in Las Vegas. Uno momento (learned by videogames!): STUPID 56K! ARGH, I was downloading I'm OK. It disconected me. But, do you see me trying to murder my parents for having such a ridiculous connection by moving in with friends who have it? Not a chance in the world. Videogames helped me communicate with people. Perhaps it also contributes to the world economy. And JT, you are truly the laziest of all the drivers. Your profile would make all of Microsoft Windows drivers look like Unix drivers. Oh yes, Jack Thompson- would you like a google mail account? Act quickly when you get it- you'll be spammed faster then Bill Gates's e-mail.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

There's a difference...

rohaq
2006-02-16 01:24 am UTC (link)

...between the Red Cross case and this one. The Red Cross logo is used in games because it's a universally accepted symbol of first aid, and as such has a meaning outside of the organisation, and is used as a symbol of health in games. It extends beyond the organisation. Much in the same way that Asprin lost the case years ago when others used their name for their own brands.

The Xbox 360 logo and design is Microsoft's. It's not a universally accepted logo for anything else. This isn't really even parody, since parody generally requires mockery or comedic content.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Feeeling somelazydriver 2006-02-16 01:29 am UTC (link)
	Right. Just because there is a Red Cross doesn't mean it should be Red Cross only. It is indeed the universal symbol for health. Sorry for off topicness, but I had a feeeling JT was coming to town. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Feeeling -

jabrwock, 2006-02-16 01:58 am UTC

Re: Feeeling -

somelazydriver, 2006-02-16 02:04 am UTC

	father_time89 2006-02-16 02:47 am UTC (link)
	I think this falls under fair use because the ball logo has now been changed, although I'm no lawyer. People have been doing this for a while, like in 2004 some people had signs against Kerry and one of them had exactly the same, and the same style as Heinz ketchup. I forget what it said though. (Reply to this)

Useless Ramblings

freekill1313
2006-02-16 02:55 am UTC (link)

O.o maybe they should try making a bible video game. It could be like an RPG "aw dang the bridge is out on this river...better add Moses to my party..." n.n() I actually saw a bible video game but it was for ages 3 and under or something. If you became fishers of men by capturing people with a net-gun then you might appeal to an older audience. You could even have a minigame where you are a certain cranky, senile old man who beats gamers with a bible until they repent.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Ramble On! somelazydriver 2006-02-16 04:02 am UTC (link)
	Hello. I am HP. Had Pompson! And I have a modest proposal! See, I was wondering if you guys made a violent videogame-but based on the bible! Sounds fun? Jt, what do you think? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Ramble On! -

baconninja, 2006-02-16 05:07 am UTC

sonar0m
2006-02-16 08:10 am UTC (link)

you know if you wanted to mess with their heads you could just say "i chose that becaus it is a plus sing, deonting the addition to HP, and i choose red because that is the color of human blood. hehe i would just love to see there faces. be caus if you think about it a + is equial sided cross and if you just make the text red i have NOW viloated the red crosses logo? but this is to make a point ((btw becaus i almost never watch TV and or get sick i ACTLUY did not know the redcrosses symbol was that till just this happend (feals REALY dumb)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	oops sonar0m 2006-02-16 08:13 am UTC (link)
	sor ment to reply ot another post on this line sory if you could move that woudl be greate (Reply to this) (Parent)

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