Game Politics ([info]gamepolitics) wrote,
@ 2006-01-27 13:36:00
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Entry tags:delgadillo, diamond, esa, ftc, hot coffee, los angeles, rockstar, take two, woodbury

Interview with L.A. City Attorney's Office on Hot Coffee Lawsuit

The surprising Hot Coffee lawsuit filed yesterday by the office of Los Angeles City Attorney Rocky Delgadillo (left), a Democrat, could have broad implications for the video game industry, not just Rockstar and Take Two Interactive.

Moments ago, GamePolitics talked with Jonathan Diamond, a spokesman for Delgadillo's office. Of the lengthy investigation, Diamond said, "It's been going on for quite a while. I don't know the exact start date, but it's been a few months. It was prompted by the revelation about what was going on with Take Two and Rockstar, the San Andreas Hot Coffee scenes."

But what about the implication that other games and companies may be under investigation?

"We can't talk about the pending investigation," Diamond told GP. The spokesman did reveal that the case has not been presented to a grand jury.

"The city attorney is the driving force behind it and he's directing the chief of our Criminal and Special Litigation branch, who is a former U.S. Attorney," Diamond said. As to whether the video game industry has been cooperating with the probe, Diamond said cryptically, "We have been communicating with them and sharing information."

So how does the Los Angeles case fit in with what would seem to be a quite similar investigation by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC)?

"I'm not aware of the specifics of the FTC investigation," Diamond said.

The financial implications of the L.A. case could be staggering for Take Two. According to Diamond, "This action was brought under two sections of California's Business and Professions Code... Both carry maximum penalties of $2,500 per violation. But as we view it, each sale withing California would be a violation and because it's brought under an unfair marketing claim, any time an advertisement was seen by someone, that could be a violation as well."

Ouch.

As for the game industry, ESA spokesman Jeff Woodbury said the organization would have no comment on either the lawsuit or the broader implications of the L.A. City Attorney's investigation into video game marketing in general.




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[info]silver_derstin
2006-01-27 07:15 pm UTC (link)
This just in: Making video games no longer rentable, all companies declare bankrupcy.
Looks like this is the plan, at least. Unless the game is open-source, which means NOBODY will ever make a game to make money anymore. Maybe some lawiers are stupid. Others are just plain idiots that don't make sense.

(Reply to this)

I don’t get it
[info]andrew_eisen
2006-01-27 07:17 pm UTC (link)
But as we view it, each sale withing California would be a violation and because it's brought under an unfair marketing claim, any time an advertisement was seen by someone, that could be a violation as well."

What? How? The advertisements for San Andreas were completely indicative of the game’s contents and were in no way misleading. Why don’t you sue the makers of films who include scenes in the trailers that aren’t in the final film? That’s misleading marketing, isn’t it?


Andrew Eisen

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: I don’t get it
[info]kilika_stryfe
2006-01-27 07:18 pm UTC (link)
Good point there with the movie trailers.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: I don’t get it - [info]mrfalcon, 2006-01-27 10:36 pm UTC
Jack's replacement?
[info]kilika_stryfe
2006-01-27 07:17 pm UTC (link)
Poor Take 2. This guy actually seems more competant than Jack Thompson. I'm interested to see what he can do.

Just as long as he doesn't say "HOOAH" after every sentence, he's more of a threat than Jack ever was.

~Kilika

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Jack's replacement?
[info]sprngpilot
2006-01-27 07:26 pm UTC (link)
More competent? Yes. Just as far off track? Definitely.

He may have a better image and better understanding of his own profession, but there's a matter of logic here. I can't shake the feeling that once the court becomes aware that the "Hot Coffee" content was disabled and could only accessed through various code manipulations that this case will fall apart.

Maybe that's just me being optimistic.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]sir_bissel
2006-01-27 07:26 pm UTC (link)
"The financial implications of the L.A. case could be staggering for Take Two. According to Diamond, "This action was brought under two sections of California's Business and Professions Code... Both carry maximum penalties of $2,500 per violation. But as we view it, each sale withing California would be a violation and because it's brought under an unfair marketing claim, any time an advertisement was seen by someone, that could be a violation as well.""

How? The game -was- rated M by the ESRB at the time--AND that warning said there was sexual content. The ESRB later decided the rating was wrong, but is that the fault of the video game maker that the ESRB didn't search the game code enough to find that?

(Yeah, I know, that goes a bit far since Rocketstar had the information hidden)

(Reply to this)

A caption by any other name would be called something else.
[info]andrew_eisen
2006-01-27 07:33 pm UTC (link)


Having finally seen them for himself, Delgadillo decides to share the Hot Coffee scenes with everyone.


Andrew Eisen

(Reply to this)

Erm
[info]squirrelofwrath
2006-01-27 07:46 pm UTC (link)
Wouldn't an update to the other post be a lil more helpfull? The reason I ask is that there is allready some discussion going on there, and now its prolly gonna be split between two posts now...

But hey, its your site.

(Reply to this)

I hate to say it...
[info]sense7
2006-01-27 07:51 pm UTC (link)
I hate to say it, but Take Two really screwed up on this. I don't think the whole industry should be held accountable, but this action in and of itself is fairly reasonable. The advertisement thing is a bit of a stretch though.

I have since learned that it is easier for a programmer to "break" code than to remove it entirely, so I understand why the content was still on the disc. Still, somebody at Take Two should have been overseeing this.

I don't know. I think they probably would have been better off just leaving it in the game in the first place. It's the fact that it was "hidden" that made it such a big deal.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Jack's replacement?
[info]vaminion
2006-01-27 08:51 pm UTC (link)
Hacker in this post is referring to people who like tinkering with the innards of computers, programs, etc. to see how they work, not necessarily people who are trying to do anything bad.

SA came out on XBox, PC, and PS2. XBox online has/had cheating hackers, so there's obviously a community of people who peer at the guts of a game there (whether they actually cheat or not). PCs have had hackers since the beginning of time. I can't speak for the PS2, however.

Knowing this...knowing that 2 of the 3 systems that the game is coming out on have hackers. Knowing that on 1 of those systems (the PC) it isn't very difficult to dissect a program if you know what you're doing, how the hell do you think that just breaking the code will be enough? You would think that the programmers (at least) would have realized that it was possible for someone to reverse engineer the game and get at the supposedly inaccessible part of the code.

It was damn negligent on Rockstar/Take Two's part, no matter how you figure it; the fact that they lied about it once the story was broken only makes them look worse. Why they believed that no one would check out their story when they said "No, it's a 3rd party mod. It's not on the disks we are manufacturing" is beyond me...

-P

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Fox news is going to do a segment on this.
[info]funnydale
2006-01-27 07:52 pm UTC (link)
My guess is that other news outlets(CNN, MSNBC) are going to as well.

I'll try to record what the mainstream news media has to say about this, if I do I'll upload the video and email you the link Dennis.

(Reply to this)

I hate L.A.
[info]grimm24
2006-01-27 07:57 pm UTC (link)
First this week a columnist in the L.A. Times said he does not support our troops! Seriously, theres a big diffrence between disagreeing with the war and hoping that our men and women in uniform die!

Second, this guy. Seriously, does he not know anything? You cant even get the Hot Coffee Mod unless you download the mod on a PC or use a Gameshark on the system or somthing! So if a kid went to this much work to do this you would think a parent would actully you know, CATCH ON! Seriously, parents today have taken a new low, from not parenting their kids on the morals of right and wrong or even killing their children!

For that matter what ever happened to Joe Rogan?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: I hate L.A.
[info]murdercrow
2006-01-27 10:02 pm UTC (link)
Could you link to that article?

'Cause I'd like to see the actual wording of that guy. If he said literally "I don't support our troops," that =/= "I want our troops to die."

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: I hate L.A. - [info]grimm24, 2006-01-28 02:37 am UTC
Jack Thompson
[info]quartermaine
2006-01-27 08:06 pm UTC (link)
Will he ever come back now that you can only post at GP if you register? What's the last thing anyone's heard out of him?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Jack Thompson
[info]enmitywithin
2006-01-27 08:12 pm UTC (link)
I've suspected he hasn't posted for a while even when there was anon posting.
because he's too fuckin lazy.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

idiocy
[info]enmitywithin
2006-01-27 08:09 pm UTC (link)
there's no way it'll fly.

The only way each viewing of the commerical could count as a violation is if each commerical had scenes of the hot coffee MOD in it!

and if there is a violation for the SALE of the game, blame the fucking parents that bought it and the stores that sold it to minors!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: idiocy
[info]hilaryduffgta
2006-01-27 08:53 pm UTC (link)
Of course they should blame the parents but it will never happen because "parents want another option besides no" cant remember where that quote was from but i know i saw it online

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]startropics
2006-01-27 08:14 pm UTC (link)
Well this should guarentee that original copies of San Andreas become collector's items! Own a piece of history! Watch RockStar and Take-Two rape themselves financially and judicially!

(Reply to this)

??
[info]jabrwock
2006-01-27 08:18 pm UTC (link)
It's been going on for quite a while. I don't know the exact start date, but it's been a few months.

A few months?

-Hey Jimmy, figure out if this code is on the disc. And figure out if it's porn or not. Because they already put "Strong Sexual Content" on the box, we gotta figure out if it's *more* porno-ey than that.

-OK, Rocky, but I gotta play it for a few months, just to be sure.


??

(Reply to this)

Gee more People Anal about hot coffee
[info]hilaryduffgta
2006-01-27 08:51 pm UTC (link)
I can agree with some people that it was a dumb Move on rockstar's Part to keep hot coffee in there.Now i realize it takes time to remove content and it was easier to just lock it off.But Going after rockstar like this is Pure bullshit and i can bet that if it was any other video game company it wouldnt ever have gotten this far.Great way to waste more and more money in california.And im sure everyone's favorite lawyer is Jumping up and down over this one.Since i've gotten use to the fact that i'll know be looked at as a criminal cause im a gamer i guess i'll get use to the fact that eventually the feds will force rockstar to do a Massive recall and arrest anyone who wont Turn in their copy.Nice to know that as a gamer i have no rights at all.i'll tell you one thing though as soon as i can afford it im getting out of this hell hole known as california

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Gee more People Anal about hot coffee
[info]_sempiternal_
2006-01-27 09:24 pm UTC (link)
Come to New Jersey, we have liberals :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Gee more People Anal about hot coffee - [info]hilaryduffgta, 2006-01-27 09:32 pm UTC
Re: Gee more People Anal about hot coffee - [info]expert_gamer, 2006-01-28 01:55 am UTC
Re: Gee more People Anal about hot coffee - [info]hilaryduffgta, 2006-01-28 02:03 am UTC
Re: Gee more People Anal about hot coffee - [info]zero_beat_x, 2006-01-27 09:48 pm UTC
Re: Gee more People Anal about hot coffee - [info]hilaryduffgta, 2006-01-27 10:04 pm UTC
Re: Gee more People Anal about hot coffee - [info]expert_gamer, 2006-01-28 02:04 am UTC
Re: Gee more People Anal about hot coffee - [info]hilaryduffgta, 2006-01-28 02:08 am UTC
Just let it all go.
[info]cowboybeboper42
2006-01-27 10:29 pm UTC (link)
Hot Coffee happened, T2 got sslapped around and got what they deserved. Let it all end. All this current stuff is just plain old and tiresome. It's the equivalent of Kenneth Starr wasting so much money over the Lewisky thing. No one cares and we have bigger concerns that should be paid attention to.

(Reply to this)

Again why I feel this will fail
[info]jdmdsp911
2006-01-28 12:01 am UTC (link)
Instead of retyping my post in the other story about this idiot:

http://gamepolitics.livejournal.com/187403.html?thread=11898123#t11898123

The ad itself says "strong sexual content" in the ESRB descriptors. I don't think there is any way this guy can win this based on that simple fact alone.

(Reply to this)

Why does this sound vaguely familiar...
[info]beardoggx
2006-01-28 01:28 am UTC (link)
Oh, I know! This is nothing more than a repeat of the lawsuits against the gun industry that failed miserably. (The states were passing laws banning the cities within said state from filing such suits)

This is going to fail, just like those suits against the gunmakers, only using the First Amendment instead of the Second Amendment.

Another frivolous lawsuit ges down in flames.

(Reply to this)

Why is gta worse then this
[info]hilaryduffgta
2006-01-28 01:32 am UTC (link)
http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1138099658/Nazi_Twins

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Why is gta worse then this
[info]andrew_eisen
2006-01-28 02:03 am UTC (link)
GTA or Prussian Blue. Either way, you know what you’re getting. Neither is worse than the other.


Andrew Eisen

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Why is gta worse then this - [info]andrew_eisen, 2006-01-28 02:44 am UTC
Enough Is enough
[info]yukimurasanada
2006-01-28 01:45 am UTC (link)
Ok ,time for my to state my controversial views again. This is why the industry has to start fighting back. Cause the industry has been so passive in this, people like this think they can just walk all over them. IT's one of the reasons why I so strongly advocate an agressive legal stance. Right now, the industry is trying to weather a firestorm by putting up a defensive wall. I say it's high time the industry brought out it's own guns and started shooting back.

You all know what I think needs to be done, what I belive would have the greatest impact. You may or may not agree, and your free to advocate whatever method you like, but I think we all agree. The time for defense is done. They want war. Lets give them war.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Enough Is enough
[info]hilaryduffgta
2006-01-28 02:00 am UTC (link)
I agree with you the industry really needs to start going after these people.but if you look at it this way if they dont do anything then politicians and everyone else Jt included will continue to go after take two until the company is bankrupt and then they will be satisfied.If the industry defends itself against this crap then they will be looked at as mainly trying to cover up the fact that they are somehow marketing Gta to minors.this was in joystiq today "the lawsuit demands that Take-Two (and Rockstar) stop marketing to minors and return an estimated $10 million in profits made from sales of the game in California"

I dont see how they ever marketed the game to minors but i guess that jt stupidity of "the only video gamers are children" is starting to catch on like wild fire.i would really like to see all this go away but to me its looking more and more that goverment is wanting to control the video game industry and i hate to see that happen.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Enough Is enough - [info]yukimurasanada, 2006-01-28 02:32 am UTC
Re: Enough Is enough - [info]hilaryduffgta, 2006-01-28 11:23 am UTC

(Reply from suspended user)
Re: Don't Think So.
[info]beardoggx
2006-01-28 03:57 am UTC (link)
This suit by L.A. is no different than the failed lawsuits several cities filed against the gunmakers.

Like you have a clue?

GTA: San Andreas

Rated M for Mature. And in the content descriptor are the following:

Blood and Gore
Intense Violence
Strong Language
Strong Sexual Content
Use of Drugs


"Hot Coffee" fits under the descriptions perfectly if and only if the content in question was both unlocked and shown to the ESRB. Nothing misleading about the game itself.

From another post:

The Hot Coffee scenes are not pornographic. They are not explicit. There is no nudity. Anyone who says otherwise has not seen the scenes in question.

The scenes are not part of the game and cannot be accessed without hacking the game or using an unlicensed third party modification.

The scenes are in line with the content and tone of the rest of the game which was rated M for strong sexual content among other things.

Rockstar did not deceive the ESRB. They did disclose all pertinent content. At the time, non-playable content was not defined as pertinent.

While Take Two’s initial statements regarding Hot Coffee were misleading, they were not untrue.

The marketing for San Andreas was in no way misleading or misrepresentative of the game’s contents.


You've lost again. Move on.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Take-Two Is Going Down - [info]yukimurasanada, 2006-01-28 04:42 am UTC
Dream on poor Jack - [info]monkeyincorner, 2006-01-28 06:01 am UTC
Re: Take-Two Is Going Down - [info]illspirit, 2006-01-28 08:36 am UTC
Re: Take-Two Is Going Down - [info]duff_mcwhalen, 2006-01-28 09:23 am UTC
Re: Take-Two Is Going Down - [info]hilaryduffgta, 2006-01-28 11:03 am UTC
Re: Take-Two Is Going Down - [info]pyrrhus9588, 2006-01-28 12:07 pm UTC
Re: Take-Two Is Going Down - [info]hilaryduffgta, 2006-01-28 12:24 pm UTC
FYI - [info]winter_b0rn, 2006-01-28 01:56 pm UTC
Re: Take-Two Is Going Down - [info]so_sorry810, 2006-01-29 11:05 pm UTC
Hey Dennis
[info]jdmdsp911
2006-01-28 04:14 am UTC (link)
Is the above post really from Jack?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Hey Dennis
[info]automancer
2006-01-28 04:18 am UTC (link)
Yes Dennis, please verify. If it really is then congratulations are in order.

-Auto

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

If it really is Jack then he has more guts then I credit him for. - [info]doggyspew, 2006-01-28 01:37 pm UTC
And he chickened out again, how suprising. - [info]doggyspew, 2006-01-28 09:18 pm UTC
Re: If it really is Jack then he has more guts then I credit him for. - [info]automancer, 2006-01-28 11:12 pm UTC
Re: Hey Dennis - [info]gamepolitics, 2006-01-28 09:27 pm UTC
Re: Hey Dennis - [info]hilaryduffgta, 2006-01-28 10:07 pm UTC
It figures - [info]jdmdsp911, 2006-01-29 06:35 am UTC
Re: It figures - [info]hilaryduffgta, 2006-01-29 08:48 am UTC

[info]automancer
2006-01-28 04:17 am UTC (link)
I can't really say they have much of a case here for the same reason as the "scenes in a movie trailer that are not in the final film"-scenario that was mentioned previously.

-Auto

(Reply to this)

Political pandering at its best
[info]monkeyincorner
2006-01-28 05:58 am UTC (link)
This scumb bag makes me sick, I just emailed him at the address on his website to tell him he can't score brownie points on the back of gamers.

(Reply to this)

Jack's Back
[info]hilaryduffgta
2006-01-28 01:42 pm UTC (link)
Well Jack so you decided to make a Livejournal Name thats good since now anonymous posting is done away with (thank god for that) im sure this is asking too much but is there any chance now you will act civilized and maybe gee i dont know like a adult.Sure its true that everyone and their mother is going after take two and rockstar right now.and it would be even better if they stuck with it afterwards and started going after every single game company that decieved the esrb.of course that wont happen because mainly the reason that everyone is involved in it now is for the simple fact of hoping to cash in on a big pay day.

hopefully you can answer this question for me you made a post in joystiq a few days ago that basically sounded like a threat if Those Flowers were sent to you.(you are hated in a lot of places jack and i do mean HATED) So How is it a crime now to send someone flowers? Maybe you can enlighten me on this seeing as how i wouldnt ever want to be arrested for Sending Flowers to someone.Jack i really could have sympathy for you and maybe see your side of things but i dont and i never will because your side of things is simply you want money and you want the goverment controlling everyone's lives but Yours After all you are Jack Thompson the man who Claims he "predicted columbine"
So good to Have you back Jack i guess though it was nice and quiet while you were gone.now if you will execuse me im gonna have some breakfast and go play some Gta san andreas.You know the game i bought in which is My property only reason i say that is i still own gta 3 vice and san andreas.so i guess the police force wont be seizing gta copies anytime soon.

See you around on here Jack.

p.s.s One of the flowers for jack people did get some news coverage tonight so im sure we will hear about that soon.

Tick tock Jack Tick Tock

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Jack's Back
[info]pyrrhus9588
2006-01-28 02:49 pm UTC (link)
Could I get a link to that comment?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Jack's Back - [info]hilaryduffgta, 2006-01-28 08:41 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)
Re: Actually, you're 14 steps behind us.
[info]beardoggx
2006-01-28 05:11 pm UTC (link)
Funny, you're the one who chickened out and deleted his account because you couldn't handle us.

RICO does not apply to Take-Two because the Hot Coffee scenes has never been considered obscene material yet. Talk about counting chickens before they hatch.

Take-Two wasn't being deceptive, either, as Hot Coffee, if unlocked, falls under the "Strong Sexual Content" rating description.

The only reason the ESRB re-rated the game AO, was because Take2 left out the fact that Hot Coffee was in the game and lied about it. If Take-Two had been upfront about Hot Coffee being in the game, it would have probably still gotten the "M" rating.

Kiss your law career goodbye, Jack, since you fell in plenty of traps since July. Hillary Clinton cost herself the Presidency(like she stood a chance to begin with) collaborating with pro-censorship forces.

You should know all about making a fool of yourself, Jack. You've done that throughout your career.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Actually, you're 14 steps behind us. - [info]duff_mcwhalen, 2006-01-28 07:32 pm UTC
Re: Actually, you're 14 steps behind us. - [info]pyrrhus9588, 2006-01-28 11:31 pm UTC
Re: Here's a little law lesson for you amateur lawyers in Pixelante Land... - [info]hilaryduffgta, 2006-01-28 08:43 pm UTC

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