Game Politics ([info]gamepolitics) wrote,
@ 2006-01-25 06:40:00
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Entry tags:aclu, bad grammer, bad law, games-as-porn, hogue, porn, pornography, republicans, utah, violence

Utah Bill Lumps Video Games with Pornography

Perhaps not surprisingly, one of the leading battleground states in the 25 to Life controversy is considering its own video game legislation.

As reported in today's Salt Lake City Tribune, State Rep. David Hogue (R-Riverton) is taking up the battle against video game violence.

Hogue's bill, HB 0257 is quite a bit different from most laws crafted to prevent kids from purchasing violent video games. Perhaps in response to the increasingly-heard "violent games as porn" drumbeat, Hogue's measure is designed to amend an existing Utah statute which makes distributing pornography and explicit nudity to minors a felony. Hogue's proposal adds "inappropriate violence" to the porn law.

"We are seeing an increase in mental health problems with juvenile offenders," Hogue told the Tribune... "I feel real strong that violence should be in [the pornography statute]. We need to give parents a tool to protect their children... It's sending out the message that there is more than pornography that is threatening to juveniles."

Hogue's unique approach to the violence issue adds to Utah's existing pornography law such elements as the violence that holds the plot together; violence that trivializes the serious nature of realistic violence; violence that endorses or glorifies torture or "excessive weaponry;" violence that does not demonstrate the consequences or effects of realistic violence; and violence that depicts lead characters who resort to violence freely.

As the Tribune reports, however, even some social conservatives are having a hard time digesting Hogue's bill. Gayle Ruzicka, an anti-porn crusader from the Utah Eagle Forum, told the paper, "The thing I would be concerned about is how this could be used by the state to remove children from their parents."

As might be expected, the Utah branch of the American Civil Liberties Union doesn't think much of the bill.

"You can't just stick violence into an obscenity statute and expect it to stand up to constitutional scrutiny," said Margaret Plane, the organization's legal director. "Obscenity is not protected speech. Government can regulate obscenity. The courts have not said the same thing about violence. There has to be a compelling basis that the harms are caused by the violent video games."

But what about Rep. Hogue's "message?"

"Message bills don't make good law, Plane said. "I thought we'd learned that. This bill is very likely unconstitutionally vague. People need to be able to read something and know how it is going to apply to them."

By the way, Hogue's bill should not be confused with federal legislation planned by Utah congressman Jim Matheson. Matheson's bill was reported by GamePolitics earlier this month.

GP: Good, balanced reporting by the Salt Lake City Tribune on this one. Bad law - and bad grammar - from Rep. Hogue: "I feel real strong that violence should be in (the statute)?




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(87 comments) - (Post a new comment)

FAO Dennis
[info]chuma
2006-01-25 12:37 pm UTC (link)
You might like to know that Keith Vaz brought up the subject of violent video games in the Prime Minister's Question Time this afternoon. Whilst it was very much a side issue, he was pushing Tony Blair for comment on the subject stating "It is not about adult censorship but about protecting children". He also insisted on there being a link between violence and gaming, despite the rejection of such inadequate and flawed research in US courts and by other psychologists.

In response the PM confirmed there was research done by the government into the issue and that the results would be published soon. Should this research return a negative on the influence, it would be a blow to Vaz and his campaign (and maybe JT as well as he previously claimed to be working with Keith Vaz in comments made on this website).

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: FAO Dennis
[info]matt0677
2006-01-25 01:39 pm UTC (link)
Maybe they should try enforcing the existing laws regarding sale of 18-certificate games to kids. That way, they can wrap the kids in cotton wool without censoring my entertainment.

Oh wait, that would involve effort. Sorry :)

BTW if Dennis decides to investigate this story, I'd recommend a google search with these terms:

keith+vaz+scandal

14,000 results, including the reasons why he was forced to resign as a Minister for Europe...

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: FAO Dennis - [info]odc100, 2006-01-25 01:54 pm UTC
Re: FAO Dennis - [info]rich_d7, 2006-01-25 02:31 pm UTC
Re: FAO Dennis - [info]odc100, 2006-01-25 03:00 pm UTC
Re: FAO Dennis - [info]gamepolitics, 2006-01-25 03:37 pm UTC
Another pathetic attempt by the anti-game mafia
[info]beardoggx
2006-01-25 12:44 pm UTC (link)
The courts have already said that violence is not obscene, as the Supreme Court defined "obscenity" as "material that deals with sex".

The courts have already ruled that all "violent" video games are protected speech.

It's a retarded idea, quite frankly, as all games would be effected by this.

Funny then that this so-called conservative has a very liberal view of what constitutes sex and violence.

Funny, we don't this turd trying to add "violent" movies to that bullshit. Off the top of my head, I could name at least ten movies that would fit his definition of violence: the Home Alone series, Passion of the Christ, Commando, Predator, and the Terminator series.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Another pathetic attempt by the anti-game mafia
[info]loveberry
2006-01-25 04:41 pm UTC (link)
I didn't read the entire text of the law, but wouldn't it apply to movies and other media?

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]silver_derstin
2006-01-25 12:58 pm UTC (link)
Violent games are PORN now? I think I haven't seen enough porn then...

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]xd_melchior
2006-01-25 05:56 pm UTC (link)
Pornography, like many words in the English language, has more than one definition. ;x

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Not a good idea, and one that will never get beyond the courts
[info]yukimurasanada
2006-01-25 01:09 pm UTC (link)
The courts would shoot this bill full of holes in a heart beat.

It has been standing law for over 30 years, that you can't lump violence and obsenity together.

Sorry buddy, but your a failure already.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Not a good idea, and one that will never get beyond the courts
[info]enmitywithin
2006-01-25 04:56 pm UTC (link)
looks like they are going to try. just sit back, grab some popcorn, and enjoy :D

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Not a good idea, and one that will never get beyond the courts - [info]pixelante_ninja, 2006-01-25 05:40 pm UTC
The ACLU
[info]dog_welder
2006-01-25 01:12 pm UTC (link)
Maybe I missed it, but has the ACLU been speaking out on these proposed bills and laws yet? I know they did in Utah, but unless I missed it they're hopping on it now because it's a Republican sponsor. Why aren't they taking a more active role in Illinois, California, Iowa, etc.?

Of course, my memory might be faulty on this....

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: The ACLU
[info]brendanthejedi
2006-01-26 03:53 am UTC (link)
Sorry, the ACLU is too busy to protest about things like this and patriot act when that are focusing on more important things, like telling cities they can't have a Christmas Display in town hall. The ACLU is joke nowadays. Instead of focusing on shit that is really threatening us, they go for the shit that doesn't matter.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]loveberry
2006-01-25 01:35 pm UTC (link)
It seems to me that this would cover a lot more than games - tv, movies, maybe even books. Is that such a bad thing? Restricting the distribution of extremely violent media to kids doesn't seem any worse (from a civil liberties standpoint) than restricting the availability of sexually explicit materials to kids.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]silver_derstin
2006-01-25 01:42 pm UTC (link)
Maybe because obscenity is not covered by the Constitution and violence is? And that maybe, JUST MAYBE, censorship is wrong.

But I guess a lot of Americans don't see it that way.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]bigman_k, 2006-01-25 02:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]loveberry, 2006-01-25 04:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jabrwock, 2006-01-25 04:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pixelante_ninja, 2006-01-25 05:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]silver_derstin, 2006-01-25 04:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]loveberry, 2006-01-25 03:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bigman_k, 2006-01-25 04:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]shock223, 2006-01-25 04:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]loveberry, 2006-01-25 04:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]morlockx, 2006-01-25 03:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]loveberry, 2006-01-25 04:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]morlockx, 2006-01-25 04:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bigman_k, 2006-01-25 04:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bigman_k, 2006-01-25 04:18 pm UTC
A Canadian Perspective - [info]mrfalcon, 2006-01-25 11:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]laterose, 2006-01-27 05:42 am UTC
Wow! (not the game)
[info]the1jeffy
2006-01-25 01:50 pm UTC (link)
Two articles in a row that have had fair and balanced reporting about video games from another source besides GP? I summoned up a demon really quickly and Ragnagakzorr was actually happy to be up here; it's actually colder in Hell than western Pennsylvania it seems.

Let's hope this starts a trend.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Wow! (not the game)
[info]tollwutig
2006-01-25 03:17 pm UTC (link)
It's a sign, the end of the world is nigh...

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Wow! (not the game) - [info]silver_derstin, 2006-01-25 04:33 pm UTC
Re: Wow! (not the game) - [info]the1jeffy, 2006-01-25 05:30 pm UTC
Re: Wow! (not the game) - [info]silver_derstin, 2006-01-25 05:52 pm UTC
Re: Wow! (not the game) - [info]enmitywithin, 2006-01-25 10:16 pm UTC
Re: Wow! (not the game) - [info]the1jeffy, 2006-01-26 04:08 am UTC
Excessive weaponry?
[info]timed95
2006-01-25 02:17 pm UTC (link)
Whaa?

Did anybody else imagine Burt (or was it Earl?) from Tremors after that one?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Excessive weaponry?
[info]andrew_eisen
2006-01-25 09:09 pm UTC (link)
Burt Gummer - played by Micheal Gross


Andrew Eisen

(Reply to this) (Parent)

So...
[info]rich_d7
2006-01-25 02:32 pm UTC (link)
if games are porn, does that mean that porn is now games?

Gives the Olympic Games a whole new meaning!

Rich

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: So...
[info]kharne83
2006-01-25 03:39 pm UTC (link)
[Insert cheep joke about doing the breast stroke here)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: So... - [info]pixelante_ninja, 2006-01-25 05:46 pm UTC
Not gonna happen
[info]evilfish28
2006-01-25 02:34 pm UTC (link)
It's not gonna happen.

Classifying violent games in the same category as pornography is ridiculously asinine and absurd. To quote my favorite movie Pulp FIction, "It ain't the same ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same fucking sport."

And let's look at the economic view of if this were to be taken intmo practice. Since major chains like Target and Wal-mart and Best Buy cannot sell pornography, gamers will be forced to either buy "violent" games from specialty stores or online. Those major chains will take quite a blow from financial losses as is, since the majority of consumers purchase games from those locations.

Let's also use some common sense here. Pornography uses real actors performing in real sex scenes. Video games are nothing but computer-drawn pixels, and most of them have nowhere near the amount of obsenity as most porn films and books, even M rated games.

In addition, there are some statutes that are rediculous.

"violence that does not demonstrate the consequences or effects of realistic violence." Obviously this guy have never played GTA.

"violence that depicts lead characters who resort to violence freely." So what do you suggest, a game in which you are given dialouge options at the very beginning and automatically finish the game if choose the right dialouge? The concept is absurd, for no one will want to buy a game in which the "hero" does nothing but negotiate with a zoning board to get control of a city.

"violence that trivializes the serious nature of realistic violence." Video gaming is a trivial activity, point taken. It is used as a means to escape reality, and just to have a good time, and there is not a single game out there that doesn't have some sort of triviality in it.

"violence that endorses or glorifies torture or 'excessive weaponry'" Define what you mean by this. With the exception of Manhunt I cannot think of a game that actively makes you torture enemies, not even in GTA. In addition, in any FPS there are always ways to "overkill" your opponent, such as shooting him while he is already dead, corpse teabagging, etc. Those aren't designed as gameplay elements, but people do it anyway. Are you going to restrict games like that just because gamers can do those things?

Talk about absurd. I could go on, but it is early and I got to get ready for class.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Not gonna happen
[info]dog_welder
2006-01-25 03:00 pm UTC (link)
Just an FYI, but "pornography" can be defined beyond having live, flesh & blood actors. There is plenty of animation and video games that could be considered pornography because they are "sexually explicit while appealing to a prurient interest." That's all you need for pornography.

Any "M" rated game currently on the market is nothing that would be considered pornography.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Violent Video Games are not a threat
[info]tollwutig
2006-01-25 02:48 pm UTC (link)
See my LJ for Stephen Colbert's recent threat-down. The politicians need to pay attention to real issues.

(Reply to this)

It's haiku worthy
[info]kharne83
2006-01-25 03:43 pm UTC (link)
Another risen
Soon another fool fallen
Yet they still press on

(Reply to this)

Watch out, Naughty Dog
[info]brainswarm
2006-01-25 03:45 pm UTC (link)
endorses or glorifies torture or excessive weaponry

Excessive weaponry? He's going after Ratchet and Clank!!! The over-the-top weaponry in the series surely fits that description.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Not gonna happen
[info]pixelante_ninja
2006-01-25 05:49 pm UTC (link)
now that there pisses me off, not that it didn't already
and how do you define excessive weaponry
you kill someone with your bare hands, does that make all weaponry excessive when killing one person

(Reply to this) (Parent)

I guess 80's rock videos are restricted in Utah
[info]jabrwock
2006-01-25 04:16 pm UTC (link)
the depiction of covered male genitals in a discernibly turgid state.

Or that ballet scene from Val Kilmer's "Top Secret"... :P

Note: this isn't new stuff, this was already part of their law...

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: I guess 80's rock videos are restricted in Utah
[info]tollwutig
2006-01-25 06:01 pm UTC (link)
So people in Utah are scared of the penis.....


Hmm wonder if you could apply this to ED medication... also Enzyte commercials would probably fall under this law vaguely

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]silver_derstin
2006-01-25 04:37 pm UTC (link)
Excessive weaponry? Just how much is "excessive" anyways? Running around with a pair of D-200 Devastator Anti-Tank canons, or a shotgun and a chainsaw?

Okay, maybe having a pocket wormhole generator is overkill...

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jabrwock
2006-01-25 04:38 pm UTC (link)
I've got a wormhole generator...

In ... my... pants...




pocket... :P

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]nightwng2000, 2006-01-25 05:55 pm UTC
alright correct me if I'm wrong
[info]crazygir
2006-01-25 04:50 pm UTC (link)
excessive use of weaponry? no consequences? resorts to violence freely? damn if this was television Warner Bros. would lose the Looney Tunes. What's funny is some very 'violent' games like Silent Hill or Resident Evil probably wouldn't even be covered by these so-called rules, as I would hardly call the weaponry excessive (a pipe people? c'mon, how can I kill monsters with that...) and I would call mowing down zombies in a bloody fashion pretty contextually accurate.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: alright correct me if I'm wrong
[info]jabrwock
2006-01-25 05:14 pm UTC (link)
damn if this was television Warner Bros. would lose the Looney Tunes.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

BTW, love your avatar. GIR is awesome!

I would call mowing down zombies in a bloody fashion pretty contextually accurate.

I wonder about that. Would games that show blood splatter, and death, "demonstrate the consequences or effects" of violence than games that show green blood, or "energy splashes"? It seems like the cartoon violence (completely unrealistic) would be "more bad" than ones that accurately portray what happens when you shoot someone with a gun...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: alright correct me if I'm wrong - [info]mcfly0612, 2006-01-25 06:40 pm UTC
Re: alright correct me if I'm wrong - [info]crazygir, 2006-01-25 09:07 pm UTC
This cough is going to kill me.
[info]gpplascencia
2006-01-25 05:43 pm UTC (link)
"...and violence that depicts lead characters who resort to violence freely."

*COUGH*BUSH*COUGH*INVADES*COUGH*IRAK*COUGH*NO*COUGH*GOOD*COUGH*REASON*COUGH*BUT*COUGH*LIES*COUGH*

... shees... I gotta see a doctor about this.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: alright correct me if I'm wrong
[info]pixelante_ninja
2006-01-25 05:51 pm UTC (link)
then would this be covered

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: This cough is going to kill me. - [info]silver_derstin, 2006-01-25 06:03 pm UTC

[info]catch_33
2006-01-25 05:54 pm UTC (link)
Hogue's proposal adds "inappropriate violence" to the porn law.

No chance in Hell of that happening, and a politician should know this better than anyone.

We are seeing an increase in mental health problems with juvenile offenders.

And I take it you think violent games are responsible for this? If so, you're a fucking moron.

I feel real strong that violence should be in [the pornography statute].

And the Supreme Court feels very strongly against violence being on level with sex and porn. Guess who's feelings are going to win out? Hint: Not yours.

We need to give parents a tool to protect their children...

They have the tools already, they just don't use them often enough. Then they blame everyone else. Why don't you help us do something about that instead of wasting taxpayer's money on this garbage?

It's sending out the message that there is more than pornography that is threatening to juveniles.

You know what would send out a better and bigger message? Studies that don't churn out skewed or inconclusive results. You want violence covered under obscenity laws? Prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's equally or more harmful.

I think the bandwagon's tipping over. Anybody got a slingshot? I'm wanna finish this bitch off once and for all.

(Reply to this)

Save yourselves!
[info]blitzfitness
2006-01-25 05:54 pm UTC (link)
DO NOT READ THIS POST.

It was recently found that I once or twice saw a nerf gun that resembled a real weapon. I have been declared violent. By being labled violent, I am also pornographic. Do not read what I am posting, otherwise you will be labled as obscene by association, and therefore 'they' will come and haul you away. You have been warned.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Save yourselves!
[info]mcfly0612
2006-01-25 06:36 pm UTC (link)
I couldn't help myself. I read your post. Now I too am pornographic and violent.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

US study: Partisan Politics Defies Logic
[info]jabrwock
2006-01-25 08:04 pm UTC (link)
This explains EVERYTHING!

http://www.exn.ca/sciencenews/story.asp?id=2006012451

The findings say that when some people really believe in a leader, their brains ignore the hard facts, especially if they discredit the preferred candidate. This suggests they listen for what they want to hear, reacting emotionally and not rationally to important information.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: US study: Partisan Politics Defies Logic
[info]the1jeffy
2006-01-25 08:48 pm UTC (link)
Actually, studies like these don't prove anything. So 15 male party-line voters don't change their views on opposing candidates and only reinforce their current views. Duh.

I think that this does show, however, the weakness inherent in a 2-party system. Interesting none the less.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: US study: Partisan Politics Defies Logic - [info]jabrwock, 2006-01-25 09:15 pm UTC
Re: US study: Partisan Politics Defies Logic - [info]lordlundar, 2006-01-25 09:02 pm UTC
Re: US study: Partisan Politics Defies Logic - [info]jabrwock, 2006-01-25 09:23 pm UTC

[info]artheleron
2006-01-25 08:19 pm UTC (link)
Well, I guess Mario's outlawed. Stomping on goombas? Kills them. Throwing fireballs at anything? Ditto. Having Yoshi eat enemies? Also, the fact that Bowser kidnaps the Princess holds the story together. OMG. :O

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]viridiscervus
2006-01-25 09:09 pm UTC (link)
violence that does not demonstrate the consequences or effects of realistic violence; and violence that depicts lead characters who resort to violence freely.

What?! Enemies falling down and disappearing with no blood at all? Outrageous, satanic games....

Guess Ratchet and Clank's out. They got BIG freaking guns, but the enemies just vanish when felled by your heavy arsenal.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

My thoughts
[info]andrew_eisen
2006-01-25 09:12 pm UTC (link)
While hard evidence may not exist linking violent videos and movies to violence in children, Hogue says, "We are seeing an increase in mental health problems with juvenile offenders."

That would indicate that the source of the problem lies elsewhere now wouldn’t it Hogue?

In response, he is adding to the pornography law a spectrum of offenses, including: graphic violence used to shock or stimulate, violence that holds the plot together and violence that trivializes the serious nature of realistic violence.

Nice work Hogue. That would make Wile E. Coyote cartoons illegal to distribute to minors.

"I feel real strong that violence should be in [the statute]," Hogue says. "We need to give parents a tool to protect their children."

Just because you fail as a parent doesn’t mean everyone else does.

"It's sending out the message that there is more than pornography that is threatening to juveniles," Hogue said.

I have news for you Hogue, pornography doesn’t hurt children either.

From HB0257:

Violence is inappropriate if it:

* is graphic violence that is not contextually relevant to the material;
* is so pervasive that it serves as the thread holding the plot of the material together;


So, it’s bad if it’s gratuitous and it’s bad if it’s integral to the material? Gee wiz, why not just say, “violence in any and all forms is bad and you can’t have any!”


Andrew Eisen

(Reply to this)

If most porn was as good as good video games...
[info]grimm24
2006-01-25 09:49 pm UTC (link)
What the?!? Video Games are now qualified as porn? As in Pornography? As in Pictures and Videos of Adults having mutual pleausere toghether? How do you connect that with video games.

I mean seriously how many people are actully turned on by the sex stuff in games?!? I mean besides future pediphiles

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: If most porn was as good as good video games...
[info]andrew_eisen
2006-01-25 10:07 pm UTC (link)
I mean seriously how many people are actully turned on by the sex stuff in games?!?

Looking at the sales numbers of hentai games in Japan (not counting exported sales), I’d say at least hundreds of thousands.

I mean besides future pediphiles

What on Earth does pedophilia have to do with someone being turned on by a game with sexual content?


Andrew Eisen

(Reply to this) (Parent)

turned on? - [info]jabrwock, 2006-01-25 10:13 pm UTC
What type of violence isn't covered by this bill?
[info]tweek_20k
2006-01-25 10:17 pm UTC (link)
Hogue's unique approach to the violence issue adds to Utah's existing pornography law such elements as the violence that holds the plot together; violence that trivializes the serious nature of realistic violence; violence that endorses or glorifies torture or "excessive weaponry;" violence that does not demonstrate the consequences or effects of realistic violence; and violence that depicts lead characters who resort to violence freely.

I can't think of many genres that are left after this. Most FPSes, third person shooters and top-down shooters are based around an obscene amount of weaponry, and violence typically figures into the plot, especially in war-themed games. Most 3D and 2D fighter games I've played rarely show consequences for the fighter's actions - if you win, your opponent is knocked out or killed and you're left standing, regardless of the amount of violent physical abuse you've used. Nearly every self-respecting RPG has at least a few good boss fights that advance the plot, and death is usually trivialized or mitigated with numerous options to heal, revive or resurrect fallen allies or even yourself. I can't think of a RTS game with a campaign mode that doesn't involve a lot of violence to advance the plot; also, many of them progress to ultimate weaponry that can literally raze cities, such as the nuclear missiles in StarCraft and in Rise of Nations.

If this is as specific as the bill gets, it will be far too vague for actual use in determining what can and cannot be sold to a minor, or determining what will and will not be legally able to be sold in all 50 states when designing games.

As for the message - legislation is never a good way to get a message across. In my opinion, (and I know a lot of GOP-registered voters that agree) governing powers should extend to loose regulation and control in emergency situations. Direct control of society at high levels can compare to the attempted near-direct economy control programs instituted in the 30's - they didn't work effectively, and only served to statically limit the economy's own self-regulation. I'm going to be flamed for bringing up Social Security, but it's a huge drain on federal tax income, it rarely covers living expenses fully after retirement, and many people are beginning to adopt private retirement accounts (that are unfortunately being taxed as well). Assuming that this bill is passed and enforced effectively, (which is unlikely, given the other anti-gaming bills that were struck down and the ease with which anyone of any age can access pornography through teh Intar-webs) it will only serve as an artifical, static, one-size-fits-all control on a varied, dynamic population, and will probably be bypassed with either barely legal forms of violence or worse methods of entertainment, perhaps some of which aren't legal or benefical to Utah's society in general.

Also, could everyone lose the 'minor' idea already? Many teens are more than capable of discerning fiction from reality, and some have already been exposed to much more wanton violence than even their parents. I can understand a parent that wouldn't want their eight-year-old to play San Andreas, but waiting until eighteen for a few rounds of Halo? Please.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: What type of violence isn't covered by this bill?
[info]andrew_eisen
2006-01-25 10:45 pm UTC (link)
If this is as specific as the bill gets, it will be far too vague for actual use in determining what can and cannot be sold to a minor, or determining what will and will not be legally able to be sold in all 50 states when designing games.

Actually, I find it so specific that it includes nearly every movie, game, and cartoon in existence in its definition of inappropriate violence that’s harmful to minors.

Also, could everyone lose the 'minor' idea already? Many teens are more than capable of discerning fiction from reality, and some have already been exposed to much more wanton violence than even their parents. I can understand a parent that wouldn't want their eight-year-old to play San Andreas, but waiting until eighteen for a few rounds of Halo? Please.

I wholeheartedly agree.


Andrew Eisen

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: What type of violence isn't covered by this bill? - [info]bigman_k, 2006-01-26 12:12 am UTC
Nothing like makeing everything illeagle
[info]zippydsmlee
2006-01-25 11:59 pm UTC (link)
Yes lets make everything illeagle so that peppole will not stray from the good book...whitch sadly has been "altred" so many times its hard to tell what was realy in it.....

sorry new users let me at least make acouple ranitng dumb posts befor I stat makeing sence :P

(Reply to this)


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