gamepolitics: Muskogee Editors Side with ESA on Game Legislation

Game Politics (

gamepolitics) wrote,
@ 2005-12-12 15:58:00

Entry tags:

esa, illinois, legislation, lowenstein, morgan, muskogee, oklahoma

Muskogee Editors Side with ESA on Game Legislation

Forget New York, New York.

If you can make it in Muskogee, you can make it anywhere. And Doug Lowenstein has. Until the ESA honcho came along, country singer Merle Haggard was the most famous name associated with Muskogee, Oklahoma, pop. 38,310.

Lowenstein's Oklahoma star turn began last week when State Rep. Fred Morgan penned an op-ed in the Muskogee Phoenix. Morgan's guest editorial, titled "Video games offer tutorials in violence" advocated Oklahoma's adoption of game legislation similar to that of Illinois - three days after Illinois' was ruled unconstitutional.

Last Friday Doug waded into the fray with his own op-ed in the Phoenix. The ESA boss made some good points and Lowenstein - unlike GamePolitics - was gracious enough not to poke fun at Rep. Morgan's Illinois faux pas.

So who won the Morgan-Lowenstein duel of editorials?

Lowenstein, by a landslide, according to the editorial board of the Muskogee Phoenix. In an opinion published Saturday, the paper showed an impressive grasp on the issues involved, saying, "...Rep. Fred Morgan... referred to statements by a licensed psychologist who said game violence spills over into action... If that were completely true then schools would be havens for violence. But a national report just last month stated from 1992 to 2002, school crime rate was cut in half, and that figure mirrors a national trend outside schools - crime is down 30 percent."

"Violent behavior cannot be explained simply by the programs people watch or the games they play. A few people will re-enact things portrayed in films and games, but their problems and the motivations for violence go deeper than a video game."

"...What this state needs more than a video ban — something other states and Illinois courts have already declared unconstitutional - are parents involved with their children. If parents don't want their children to watch something, then they should stop them."

(35 comments) - (Post a new comment)

kajex
2005-12-12 10:03 pm UTC (link)

"And 'lo, there came, in writing of black and white, words and numbers uttered that spoke an undeniable truth, and thus the eyes of many were cleared, and the minds of many open. Thus then, were politicians shamed, or humbled, and those few that knew the truthnodded silently in response to the splendor that was the truth. And jack Thompson, writhing in agony as the many masses of other groups informed upon the people the reality of the issue, disappeared into darkness."

(Reply to this) (Thread)

jabrwock
2005-12-12 10:25 pm UTC (link)

disappeared into darkness

Whereupon he directed to his scribe, "Lo, record mine frustrations into the rock, that I may lob it at mine foes, thus depriving them of rational thought. And we shall raise a mighty army from the masses to throw it for me." Yet the scribe, wiser than his master, did say "Master, thou hast been pwnzed, and the people no longer call thy name as champion. Even the minstrels do mock ye." And so Thompson of Miami-Dade did grab the chisel from his scribe, and carved "Arrrrrrrrrrrrrgh" into the rock, in the hopes that *someone* would hear his war cry.

Unfortunately, the next night, a group of knights stumbled upon the stone, and seeing the carving, did assume he had expired, and was simply dictating...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	aniki21 2005-12-13 11:04 am UTC (link)
	From the same (excellent) movie, I'd say "cartoon peril" is a pretty good description of Jack, actually. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	1steelcobra 2005-12-13 07:55 pm UTC (link)
	"And, just as they were nearly doomed, the animator suffered a heart attack and died." (Reply to this) (Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2005-12-12 10:30 pm UTC (link)
	Okay, this is starting to become an epidemic. There's no reason to bring Jack into this, as he has little to do with this particular legislation. The more people keep bringing him into arguments that have nothing to do with him, the more you feed his sense of empowerment. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	kajex 2005-12-12 10:38 pm UTC (link)
	Let me write what I'd like to write, please? Or at least grow a sense of humor. -.- (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2005-12-12 11:33 pm UTC (link)

Uh, I’m here as an anon poster. I’m hardly in the position to edit your posts, so you can write what you want.

But it seems to me that if we really want Jack to go away, the best way to do that is to stop giving him so much buzz. It only makes him seem more important than he really is. Even Penny Arcade has acknowledged as much. He’s already being shunted to the side by the politicians. Worry less about him and more about Walsh, since Walsh is the one who keeps showing up next to all these wannabe presidential candidates.

As for my sense of humor: sorry, but your fictional Jack exploits are nowhere near as funny as the real thing. ;)

- Steven

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	LOl yukimurasanada 2005-12-13 12:13 am UTC (link)
	Though I can understand your argument, and agree that the real exploits of jack are funnier then fiction, it's just to funny to see such a well penned jab at Jacks religious Bullshit. Anyway, your right, this has nothing to do with jack. unless he gets the balls to come back and debate, lets leave the moron out of this ok? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	kajex 2005-12-13 12:32 am UTC (link)
	But my joke is akin to something like those jokes people sometimes make about Bush, yaknow? It's funny! ^^; I think. (Reply to this) (Parent)

Good for them

jabrwock
2005-12-12 10:09 pm UTC (link)

This week was all about the Phoenix deciding that someone other than government needs to step up and take responsibility for video games getting into the hands of kids. Especially since government involvement ENDS at the doorstep, unless the child's health is at risk, which the science just isn't there.

Violent behavior cannot be explained simply by the programs people watch or the games they play. A few people will re-enact things portrayed in films and games, but their problems and the motivations for violence go deeper than a video game.

Common sense wins again!

(Reply to this)

	Logic quartermaine 2005-12-12 10:15 pm UTC (link)
	It's there in Muskogee. And it is better for it. (Reply to this)

	See? Common sense does prevail. automancer 2005-12-12 10:27 pm UTC (link)
	I am glad to see that most people "get it" and don't easily fall for all the 'video games teach violence' nonsense. They are also are aware that more parental supervision is what is needed instead of government intervention. -Auto (Reply to this)

Great piece. Short and sweet.

s13scoops
2005-12-12 10:34 pm UTC (link)

They hit several nails square on the head in a rather short amount of space, kudos to the author. I like how they specifically touch on the violent crimes issue. It's one that I feel doesn't get enough time in the debate. While there have been some very high-profile crimes involving teens in the years cited, the statistics for then (and since) show a decline in violent crime. I won't be as silly as to confuse correlation and causation, but the important point is this: There is less youth crime now than 30 years ago. Ergo, it is not possible that video games make youth more violent. If there is less violent crime, it is unfeasible to argue that the group is more violent. And yet we keep seeing people asserting that kids are more violent now than ever.

Plus the author hits the big point the gaming community keeps banging the drum on: parental involvement and responsibility. They even take Morgan to task (briefly) for his own admitted lack in th area.

If parents don’t want their children to watch something, then they should stop them. It's not rocket surgery, people!

(Reply to this)

	chuma 2005-12-12 11:14 pm UTC (link)
	If only this sort of journalism was indicative of the national media. Alas I fear that common sense is restricted to those journalist not trying to make sensationalist headlines to sell newspapers or gain TV Ratings. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	kapper 2005-12-13 02:38 am UTC (link)
	i would love to see some major, national news outlets pick this up and run with it. if only "video game violence does not directly correlate to increased violence in real life" could get the same attention as "video game indicated as murder motivation." (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	psyco_chick32 2005-12-13 07:06 am UTC (link)
	When I am a famous anchor, I will absolutely refuse to report on a video-game's possible link to violence until having it absolutely one-hundred percent proven fact. Even then, only maybe. I told my fiance if I ever did, he should lock me out of the house for a week. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2005-12-12 11:17 pm UTC (link)
	Now if only the rest of the country understood this. (Reply to this)

Regulation
(Anonymous)
2005-12-12 11:22 pm UTC (link)

I wonder if there isnt some reason to the whole 'regulating video games' thing. First of all, i am a gamer, have been since my most tender age, my first console being an atari (well it was my dad's but we made good use of it as well), and i am 20 years old.
So my gripe with video games has nothing to do with imagined correlations with violence, or that it has any kind of resemblance with pornography. I think that perhaps there are some dangers that are exclusive to video games, just not ones that we speculate about.
Most of what im about to say may sound far fetched but its an opinion worth entertaining.
Anyways, I remember reading this short science fiction story ounce, i probably still have the book around somewhere, and it was set in a future of earth where the vast majority of people had renounced the world and spent all their lives in VR, where they could be gods.
Our present technology is obiously not advanced enough for this kind of thing, but i think we are already starting to get glimmers of this with people who become slightly...too attached to characters in games such as Everquest or WoW. They transfer their lives from the real world into artificial ones. They don't become confused on the nature of the world, on the contrary. They simply renounce it. This does not cause them to suddenly think they can go on the street and cast fireballs at people. If anything it isolates them from life.
I don't think video games CAUSE this type of behaviour, this is achieved by a world that is, lets face it, pretty cold and rough. Suicides and depression is on the rise and a lot of people seem to lack purpose. When you add video games to the mix you can dratically increase the chances of someone finding a kind of solace in it, a balm for their frustration at a world where they are mostly powerless, as opposed to video games, where the key word is control.
For me, video games are a drug. But I'm a big fan of Thompson (ahah, i mean Hunter S. Thompson), and i also believe that politics is just another trip. What they both have in common is power. Video games could become a very good electronic crack for disabused people the closer we get to realistic looking games. When video games can actively mimic real life, well, what better high than total power?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Regulation

chuma
2005-12-12 11:39 pm UTC (link)

The temptation to dismiss is strong, but knee-jerk reactions aside, I think you have a point in there. Yes, as advancements are made in computer games and entertainment there should be regulation for the good of the industry and the consumers. MMORPGs are already immersive as you have said, but if they were to become convincing, then there would be no doubt that something would needs to be done to ensure that it remains entertainment and not a substitute for life in escapism.

However, the situation as it is at the moment, I wouldn't argue against a ban on sales to minors of selected computer games as long as the parent/guardian had the ultimate say and it was done with the best interests of the industry and consumers in mind and not out of the need for political gain and oneupmanship. Anything in excess of that is in my mind not only in breach of freedom or speech, but in breach of common sense and reason.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Regulation

toshirotzu
2005-12-12 11:52 pm UTC (link)

"there would be no doubt that something would needs to be done to ensure that it remains entertainment and not a substitute for life in escapism."

I have a suggestion, make the world a better place to be than the virtual worlds. If there's nothing to escape from then there's no problem. That's not what will happen though, no instead we'll just try and stop their escapism through banning games and content

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Regulation
(Anonymous)
2005-12-13 12:24 am UTC (link)

Well the morale of the science fiction story was basically that the world rotted away while everyone was in their VR worlds. People stopped having children, economies collapsed, cities became ghost towns, and eventually humanity dies out. We, all of us, have responsabilities in the real world, to ourselves and most importantly to others. So in that context maybe 'the lets make VR worlds for everyone' thing might not be such a good idea.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Regulation (Anonymous) 2005-12-13 12:27 am UTC (link)
	oops i completely misread your statement. I agree with what you say, hence my remarks that it is other factors of life than video games by themselves that cause some to fall back on virtual worlds. Unfortunately Utopia was sought after in the 20th century, we don't even seem to try anymore. We're more concentrated on improving the industry and raising profits. (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Regulation

acroamatis
2005-12-13 03:11 am UTC (link)

This is a very matrix-esque view of things, and it's likely to fail for the same reason the matrix "failed" (I'm talking about IN the movie, not the movie series itself. Though I could go on about that...). While escapism might be tempting, it wouldn't be because of the temptation of absolute power or godhood. While this might be an aspiration for some, most people grasping after power are never content with the amount of power they have - to give them seeming absolute power would be giving them their own private Hell. In short, being a God with no responsibilities or challenges is BORING - anaethma to most of the people who populate computer games. Absolute power would pall very quickly.

However, a world VERY similar to our own, but somewhat nicer, better food available, people of your mindset freely available to talk with, good sex.. that would be tempting. It's just unlikely, barring a holodeck-esque personality simulator (Turing-proof). Because we already know what happens when you let everyone into the virtual world - you get the internet. Everyone (and the hypocrisy of my next statement is blinding) declaiming their opinions as if they're worth something, or at least as if someone will care what they think. You won't be able to see your Utopia for the people.

Just a thought.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Regulation
(Anonymous)
2005-12-13 03:26 am UTC (link)

Thats true. In life, there are so many ways to be escapist. Ranging from books, to Television.

But i would also like to say that, suprisingly enough, LIFE IS GETTING BETTER!

I know its a shock. The media and pessimists (Read idiots with there heads rammed into the sand) would like you to belive that the world is getting worse, obviously enough.

But all we need to do is to look back and see how far we have progressed. A scant 100 years ago, millions were poor, and even the "rich" where disatisfied. Medical practices where a joke, industry was a cesspool of danger and badly made equipment. And did the word "crime ridden hellholes" ring a bell? New York of 1800 was not ONLY dises ridden, but also you coudlent walk down a well lit street at 6:00 without getting knifed and mugged. Oh and the police where corrupt, mean and thuggish.

Now look back a hundred years before that, and you notice how army's are uncrolled mobs, little more then a mob of untrained ruffians speing time rapeing, pillaging and mururing civilieans (in that order).

A hundred years before that and you can see wars, slavery, relligios persicution, idiotic doctors who thought the best way to cure a head ache was to drill a hole in your head and pur salt down it.

A hundred years before that and millions where dieing from a deadly plauge, the body's wher piling up in the streets and (whattya know) its the Jew's fault. Mass burnings, lynches and other mob activitys make the streets even more bloody then the plauge had.

On and on and on, life gets worse the farther you go back. Warlords rose and fell, the commen man and women where considered less the humain.

Now adays there are wars, but rahter then being a uncrontorlled mass of swordswingers, with uncrontolled pillaging and doing what most people know adays call "War-crimes". Todays wars are saintly by the past's standards. WMD's can kill indesciminatly. But a army of 25,000 undiceplend, untrained soldiers let loose on a city can do the same damage.

Also we have medication, computers, technology and learning. A magority of people are well educated, and for the first time in four thousand years of recorded history, the MAJORITY are happy and well fed, while the MINORITY are unhappy and poorly fed.

When you look at this list of atrocity's todays standard of living is postive heaven.

Now back to Morrowind! (PS: Sorry about the spelling)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Regulation
(Anonymous)
2005-12-14 01:48 am UTC (link)

I dont know who would want to spend there life in a video game I mean I have cats to feed and food to eat and to "lose" and I dont think anybody in their right mind would want to lose all the good things they had in real life just to go to a virtual world or the rest of their life and who knows there probably are people like that in the world but there will always be people that have nothing to lose I have to admit myself sometimes when I have had a hard day I play some video games just to take a break but is that so wrong?

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	viridiscervus 2005-12-13 01:13 am UTC (link)
	Three cheers for common sense! (Reply to this)

Suprising

yukimurasanada
2005-12-13 01:28 am UTC (link)

I'm impressed, I'm glad to see to that people clearly still have common sense in this day and age. Oklahoma being, well, oklahoma, it's even more impressive that they went with Lowenstien. Very cool.

I guess this is a good start, hopefully, it will lead to more open dialog and communication, rather then idiototic crys of "What of the children".

Now if only we could shove jack thompson out an airlock somewhere in space, we'd be all set. Just kidding. But if we could get the media to stop putting his insane rantings up, maybe we'd really start making some progress.

It is telling however. A year or so ago, he was on cnn and 60 minutes, then it was 27 seconds, now he can barely get into print. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

I'm very pleased with this, but more is needed. Doug needs to start hitting every newspaper, tv show, everything he can. and I still say we should sue the crap outta retard shows like Killer instinct, CSI Miami, and so forth.

Either way, the more posistive press, the better.

Hey dennis, does Jack still send you tons of Press releases like he used to, or has he really snubbed you like he claimed? I'm curious.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Suprising (Anonymous) 2005-12-13 01:46 am UTC (link)
	I for one would like to second that last question. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: Suprising gamepolitics 2005-12-13 02:23 am UTC (link)
	Jack still sends some press releases. I haven't been running them. Haven't heard from him in a couple of days, however... (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Suprising catch_33 2005-12-13 04:51 am UTC (link)
	Anything on his "public nuisance" efforts? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Suprising suigin_kou 2005-12-13 07:15 am UTC (link)
	Yep. It's the only thing he's good at. :) (Reply to this) (Parent)

True Journalism

catch_33
2005-12-13 03:07 am UTC (link)

As much as we or anyone may be disgusted by violent or sexually explicit video games children and adults are playing now, a ban of their sale or explicit depictions is not the answer.

Damn straight.

State Rep. Fred Morgan, R-Oklahoma City, stated in a column in the Phoenix on Dec. 5 that he will introduce a proposed ban, similar to an Illinois law, next year.

Shame on him.

Morgan referred to statements by a licensed psychologist who said game violence spills over into action. If that were completely true then schools would be havens for violence. But a national report just last month stated from 1992 to 2002, school crime rate was cut in half, and that figure mirrors a national trend outside schools — crime is down 30 percent.

Damn straight.

Violent behavior cannot be explained simply by the programs people watch or the games they play. A few people will re-enact things portrayed in films and games, but their problems and the motivations for violence go deeper than a video game.

Mark David Chapman's living proof of that.

Yes, it’s a shame children and adults spend so much time in front of a television screen or computer monitor blowing away cyber people when they could be doing much more creative things. But that’s something parents and self-control should be regulating.

That's right. They can do a much better job than the government can. They just have to want to.

Morgan even admitted in his column he was negligent of the type of games his son was playing.

That he did.

What this state needs more than a video ban — something other states and Illinois courts have already declared unconstitutional — are parents involved with their children. If parents don’t want their children to watch something, then they should stop them.

Makes sense to me.

If parents are spending time with their children, then children are not spending all their time playing games and, hopefully, are learning values in life.

I would love for that to happen.

(Reply to this)

	kignofpei 2005-12-13 04:25 am UTC (link)
	It's awesome that a voice in the media is actually positive towards gaming. I wonder... if one day, the rest of the world will see video games as more than just GTA. I mean, does anyone remember when PC Gaming was basically all fantastic puzzle and mind games? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	catch_33 2005-12-13 04:42 am UTC (link)
	Eventually, acceptance will settle in. It's already starting to. Look at the games that are no longer objected to. Mortal Kombat was responsible for the creation of the ESRB, and it's a still presence today, bloody as ever, but no complaints. The "controversy criteria" doesn't stack, it just changes form. And they're running out of forms. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Wow... sense7 2005-12-13 03:26 pm UTC (link)
	A public figure from Oklahoma who doesn't make me ashamed to live here. Simply amazing. (Reply to this)

(35 comments) - (Post a new comment)

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