Game Politics ([info]gamepolitics) wrote,
@ 2005-11-18 10:33:00
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Bully Kicked by Yet Another British MP

Bully is creating a storm of controversy across the pond, as well as here in the U.S.

In recent weeks, GP has detailed the objections of British Labour MP Keith Vaz to Rockstar's controversial title. Now, as reported in Hastings Today, a second member of Parliament has joined vaz in calling for a ban on Bully.

Michael Foster, a Labour Party member who represents Hastings and Rye, believes Rockstar's game could glamorize bullying and lead to negative incidents in local schools.

"I know from my constituents how harmful bullying is and what pain it causes young people, Foster said. "This game allows the person playing it to take on the persona of a bully, able for instance to kick and punch other pupils and spit in their food. I think that can only encourage young people to find pleasure and excitement in abusing others... I understand the company has suggested the game might have an 18 rating but we all know this does not stop children accessing them."

Foster's sentiment was echoed by Liz Carnell, director of Bullying Online, who said, "Our view is that bullying is not a joke. It is not a suitable subject for computer games."

For its part, an unnamed Rockstar spokesperson told the paper, "We support and admire the groups who are working hard to address the long-standing problem of bullying. We all have different opinions about art and entertainment, but everyone agrees that real-life school violence is a serious issue which lacks easy answers... More and more people are beginning to recognize the stories in video games have as many themes and plotlines as books and movies."




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Key point here...
[info]mazinger_z
2005-11-18 04:55 pm UTC (link)
I understand the company has suggested the game might have an 18 rating but we all know this does not stop children accessing them.

Yes, so does that justify a company's ability to distribute and market their game to adults?

You have not banned porn or cigarettes, and yet children are fully capable of accessing them. Just another politician hoping on the moral bandwagon.

(Reply to this)

Tsk, tsk, tsk.
[info]catch_33
2005-11-18 04:57 pm UTC (link)
All this over a game that's not even out yet. And Rockstar has stated that bullying is punished in the game. They should be happy about this. It's fun, and educational.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Tsk, tsk, tsk.
[info]jabrwock
2005-11-18 05:23 pm UTC (link)
And Rockstar has stated that bullying is punished in the game.

Since when have MPs (or any other public figure for that matter) let something as silly as the facts get in the way of a good PR stunt? :P

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Tsk, tsk, tsk. - [info]catch_33, 2005-11-18 05:32 pm UTC
Re: Tsk, tsk, tsk. - [info]woundwalker, 2005-11-18 05:39 pm UTC
Re: Tsk, tsk, tsk. - [info]tsknf, 2005-11-18 05:53 pm UTC

[info]hybridesque
2005-11-18 05:06 pm UTC (link)
I'm not keen on Bullying myself, having been a victim of it at school when I was younger. In the case of this game, I just wouldn't go near it. The way bullying is dealt with in schools in the UK is wholly inadequate in my opinion from personal experience.

The MPs should look at how bullying is dealt with in the educational system first before slamming down on the game. "Don't complain about your neighbour's roof when your own path is unclean"

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]catch_33
2005-11-18 05:16 pm UTC (link)
I'm not keen on Bullying myself, having been a victim of it at school when I was younger. In the case of this game, I just wouldn't go near it.

So was I. But I'm definitely buying this game. And not to "settle a score" in a virtual setting either, I've already done that with other games a thousand times over. No, I'm buying it strictly to piss the anti-gamers off. Seeing this title sell millions because of the free publicity it's been given will be even funner than playing the game itself.

This game isn't going to cause a rash of bullying. Oh sure, the media will conviently report on more bullying incidents after the game's release, and all the gullible parents are going to panic, and JT's going to go "I told you so!", but that doesn't mean shit.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]jabrwock, 2005-11-18 05:26 pm UTC
Confucious, he say... - [info]hybridesque, 2005-11-18 05:32 pm UTC
Re: Confucious, he say... - [info]jabrwock, 2005-11-18 05:33 pm UTC
Re: Confucious, he say... - (Anonymous), 2005-11-18 06:06 pm UTC
I need to agree. - (Anonymous), 2005-11-18 05:17 pm UTC
Re: I need to agree. - [info]catch_33, 2005-11-18 07:00 pm UTC
Re: I need to agree. - [info]jabrwock, 2005-11-18 07:30 pm UTC
Re: I need to agree. - [info]expert_gamer, 2005-11-19 01:52 am UTC
Bullies beating up Bully again.
[info]nightwng2000
2005-11-18 05:08 pm UTC (link)
As usual, more disinformation and fraud by those who don't even know what the game is about. No body knows fully. Why? BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN FULLY DISCLOSED BY ROCKSTAR! Duh! (Copyright infringment on that last word? Hmmm....)

""This game allows the person playing it to take on the persona of a bully, able for instance to kick and punch other pupils and spit in their food. I think that can only encourage young people to find pleasure and excitement in abusing others.." Um... excuse me, Foster failed to mention, by intent to mislead or because of his own ignorance, ALL the students in the school are trouble-makers in one fashion or another. According to the released information, the school is an "alternative" school for troubled teens. And of course, he leaves off the fact that among those official reports of the game are the statements that some, if not all, the teachers are corrupt.

But I guess, those are good people in the eyes of the government. Hmmm... "corrupt" - "government". Don't know about you, but I'm seeing a connection.

But, although unnamed, the source hints to something else. Anybody catch it? "More and more people are beginning to recognize the stories in video games have as many themes and plotlines as books and movies."
I've been wondering about the backstory on this game. And the reference to "tongue and cheek" in the E3 review also made me curious. I wonder if we're going to get some surprises as the plotline thickens?

nightwng2000

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Bullies beating up Bully again.
[info]jabrwock
2005-11-18 05:14 pm UTC (link)
Foster failed to mention, by intent to mislead or because of his own ignorance, ALL the students in the school are trouble-makers in one fashion or another.

Time honoured tradition when sucking up to the masses. Leave out the details that would make your "crusade" any less holy. The "thing" your crusading against must be the devil re-incarnate, don't let facts get in the way of that...

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Bullies beating up Bully again. - [info]catch_33, 2005-11-18 05:19 pm UTC

[info]jabrwock
2005-11-18 05:11 pm UTC (link)
Our view is that bullying is not a joke. It is not a suitable subject for computer games.

Let's never talk about subjects that bother us ever again... and let's scrap any game that reminds us of the ills of society.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]hybridesque
2005-11-18 05:13 pm UTC (link)
Then a lot of games would never be released, and if you apply that to media in general then we wouldn't see lots of books, movies etc. I still think the Nanny state has gone mad and needs to be put in a secure location and given lots of Lithium.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]amisplacedphile, 2005-11-19 05:11 am UTC
Safe world...
[info]heimdal00
2005-11-18 05:13 pm UTC (link)
The elite know what's good for us.

It will be a safe world when people don't have to live in fear of video games and instead occupy their time cleaning their guns or somesuch.

*sarcasm*

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Safe world...
[info]tsknf
2005-11-18 05:55 pm UTC (link)
People in the UK don't have guns freely. We do have knives freely though, so we can polish them instead.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Guess who?
[info]jabrwock
2005-11-18 05:19 pm UTC (link)
"Pixelantes are going down, Bully will be banned, and TakeTwo will cry."
"I was on 60 minutes, etc, so I'm an expert."
"Jesus is f'ing metal, hoo-hah!"

"p.s. Duh!"
"p.p.s. Judge Moore is a loser!"

:P

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Guess who?
[info]rmallen
2005-11-18 05:24 pm UTC (link)
Jesus IS f'ing metal!! :P

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Guess who? - [info]jindewinter, 2005-11-18 05:27 pm UTC
Re: Guess who? - [info]catch_33, 2005-11-18 05:36 pm UTC
Re: Guess who? - [info]mazinger_z, 2005-11-18 05:43 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2005-11-18 05:47 pm UTC (link)
I understand the company has suggested the game might have an 18 rating but we all know this does not stop children accessing them.

This smacks a lot of "dusting under the carpet"... rather than solving the actual problem of the lack of enforcement about games, they attack the specific incident, same as they'll do next year for whatever "glamourous violent" game is out. Why make real progress when you have such a convenient source of good publicity for yourself?
Besides, banning this game will clearly have no positive effect on bullying at all, certainly not as much as improved communication between teachers/pupils... it's not like it's going to teach any new tactics, is it? "My son was kicked at school, his bully learnt how to do it off a computer game!"

Personally, I'd rather give my vote to the guy who said "Why should adults lives be run by what might happen to kids?"

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jabrwock
2005-11-18 06:24 pm UTC (link)
This smacks a lot of 'dusting under the carpet'...

Sadly, this is how things work. Attack the story rather than what the story is based off.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]amisplacedphile, 2005-11-19 05:14 am UTC

[info]tsknf
2005-11-18 05:59 pm UTC (link)
What can I say? Same as everyone else. Last I checked previews of the game said you stood up to bullies, but of course these 40+ old nutters won't take heed of that.

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2005-11-18 06:09 pm UTC (link)
"I understand the company has suggested the game might have an 18 rating but we all know this does not stop children accessing them."

Isn't this the real problem then? if those ratings don't mean anything when it comes to stopping children from getting their hands on them then what's the point in rating them at all? enforce the 18+ rating and if a parent still buys it and lets their kid play it then you just have to trust that the parents are making the proper judgment call and asserting that their child is mature enough to handle the content without going to school the next day and attacking the other children. the legisltion should focus on making sure that the current laws are being properly enforced before gthey attack the game itself. as long as it's rated properly there shouldn't be a problem.

They do compliance checks here to make sure that kids don't buy cigarettes when they're under 18, so just send people in to make sure that retailers look at IDs and then let the adults play the games they want.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]mrfalcon
2005-11-19 07:54 am UTC (link)
They do compliance checks here to make sure that kids don't buy cigarettes when they're under 18, so just send people in to make sure that retailers look at IDs and then let the adults play the games they want.

Yes, but that doesn't totally prevent minors from getting cigarettes either. I believe they already do ID checks for games as well in the UK. The problem is, no such enforcement will be 100% effective. That's just life.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

At Last Someone Says It!
(Anonymous)
2005-11-18 06:11 pm UTC (link)
"More and more people are beginning to recognize the stories in video games have as many themes and plotlines as books and movies."

I am so glad he pointed this out, because it's true. Games are turning into the next media genre, and fast. I predict that one day schools will have required gaming lists. I mean think about it, at one point Shakespear was considered a lowly form of entertainment. It was even condemned by the church, but now it's standard to have school kids read it. And while i don't agree with bulling, I am not nessarily against the game, because its just taking on the view point of the antaganist and not the protaganist, and will probably in the end become one of the good guys, thats is if Rockstar decideds to make a really good plot and character development. It's a way to look at a different perspective of life.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: At Last Someone Says It!
[info]ryukisargi
2005-11-18 06:23 pm UTC (link)
Well, damn. You beat me to the punch.

But yeah, they really are. You can play Parasite Eve or Final Fantasy 3-9 and get a good glimpse of novel-making and such.

Dragon Warrior 8 is supposed to have a REALLY big storyline.
Novel serialization anyone?

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: At Last Someone Says It! - [info]catch_33, 2005-11-18 06:50 pm UTC
wtf?
[info]illspirit
2005-11-18 06:15 pm UTC (link)
his game allows the person playing it to take on the persona of a bully, able for instance to kick and punch other pupils and spit in their food

Erm, spit in their food? I don't remember reading anywhere that you can spit in people's food in the game. Anyone here seen that anywhere?

Where do these people get this information on a game that nobody outside of R* has played yet? :?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: wtf?
[info]jabrwock
2005-11-18 06:20 pm UTC (link)
Where do these people get this information on a game that nobody outside of R* has played yet? :?

From Jack's twisted imagination I guess.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: wtf? - [info]catch_33, 2005-11-18 06:43 pm UTC

[info]ryukisargi
2005-11-18 06:28 pm UTC (link)
Well, I agree with Liz Carnell, to a point.
But hell, there's already tons of movies and books that condone bullying. There's even already video games that do the same!

Bullying is something everyone grows up with. It may not be pretty, it should be stopped at the source, but in the end, there's nothing really we can do about it. Just like violent language and little kids watching South Park, what else can I say, except the classic term...

Shit happens. Get over it.

Though, I thought Bully let you play a student that beat up bullies and abusive teachers? That'd be quite a good game to release some steam for picked-on children.

I'd pack a MB on it. too mature for bullies. :P

That's right. Jack Thompson can't play it.
Na-na-na-na-na-na.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jabrwock
2005-11-18 07:36 pm UTC (link)
But hell, there's already tons of movies and books that condone bullying.

Exactly. How about all those movies that condone the beating up of bullies, as a way to "get even" for being bullied? Isn't that the standard message? "Stand up, and fight back!" The underdog stands up, and punches the bully in the nose, and the crowd cheers and carries the kid off like a hero, as a reward for his violent "revenge" outburst.

This game just allows you to get creative with the "punching back" (giving them purple-nurples instead, or flushing *their* head in the toilet...)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]catch_33, 2005-11-18 07:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sedyn, 2005-11-18 08:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jabrwock, 2005-11-18 10:52 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2005-11-18 06:48 pm UTC (link)
I was a bully victim in the past, and I saw no pleasure in doing in once the tables were turned. I won't be buying this game also because I do not like most R* games and I prefer good narratives to free action games.

But please stop saying the ratings are accurate... Yeah, GTA:SA and Bully should be 18+ (even though the situation in Bully will most likely mimic what happens to the 10-16 everywhere, go figure) due to violent, racial and sexual content. But some games are grossly mislabeled by ESRB. Mobile Suit Gundam: Encounters in Space is a great example... Teen: Blood and Gore, Violence, Mild Language. The first Dot Hack game also falls in this category: Mature: Partial Nudity (as I remember) along with the usual violence, mild language and such. Games that are about as violent (thinking many Nintendo games on NGC) get beautiful E ratings.

Just about any RTS that comes out is rated M, even if some are not as gruesome and gore filled as games like FEAR. Maybe we should enforce on those ratings (personnaly, I think this idea ridiculous and that parents should be the ones deciding what little Bobby (who might be 15) can play. If Bobby is mature and capable of making decisions, I don't see what's wrong with him playing Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War, that is rated M, but I digress), but maybe those ratings should be made by people with talent at rating, that can classify games better then E, G, 13+ and 17+. Make the ratings mean something, for all the gods sake, and then maybe parents will be able to make a difference between games.

Silver Cyanide

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jabrwock
2005-11-18 07:13 pm UTC (link)
I think the biggest problem is that there isn't a "mid-teens" rating. The US ratings systems have a "meant for young children" and a "meant for adults" rating (I always thought it was dumb that M was 17 and AO was 18).

In Canada and Australia, there's a 14-15 mature-type ratings for movies. (14A, and MA15) Both are considered "more" mature than PG13, but less so than R/18A/MA18.

I think either M should be moved down to 15-16 rather than 17, or come up with another "more mature than T-13 but not quite M17".

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]expert_gamer, 2005-11-19 02:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sallizar, 2005-11-18 07:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]uberfeiyenkn, 2005-11-18 08:02 pm UTC
Article reactions
[info]andrew_eisen
2005-11-18 07:53 pm UTC (link)
The video game is set in a school with the player taking on the role of a bully.

Really? My impression from the limited information out there is that the protagonist is a student that turns the tables on other bullies.

Advance screenshots show three uniformed pupils fighting. One of them can be seen kicking a classmate in the back, while a third looks on with his fists clenched.

That description is a little misleading. Yes the blow is connecting with the lower back but the opponent is facing the aggressor.

The company has already courted controversy with its Grand Theft Auto series, which features drive-by shootings, and Manhunt, which features mask clad chainsaw wielding thugs.

I love how they choose to describe these games. “Super Mario Bros. features jumping.”

This game allows the person playing it to take on the persona of a bully, able for instance to kick and punch other pupils and spit in their food.

Spit in their food? Did I miss a preview, did you get an exclusive look at the game, or are you just making this up?

Liz Carnell, director of the charity Bullying Online, said: "Our view is that bullying is not a joke. It is not a suitable subject for computer games."

That’s not your call to make.

"Just as books aren't judged by their covers, video games shouldn't be judged by their titles or individual scenes."

In other words, please wait until there’s more than a handful of screenshots and a three sentence description of the game before you vilify it.

Mr Foster said: "I understand the company has suggested the game might have an 18 rating but we all know this does not stop children accessing them. I really hope we can take action against this kind of irresponsible game.

A child playing a game that is inappropriate for them is not the game’s irresponsibility.


Andrew Eisen

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Article reactions
[info]catch_33
2005-11-18 08:02 pm UTC (link)
Rockstar's got to be loving this. I would be. All these people passing judgement on your game just because you made it? No matter how little is actually known? You can't buy that kind of publicity. And it's not like it's having a negative effect. If it keeps parents from buying it, good. Most gamers aren't kids anyways. It's still going to sell like crazy. And we spit on the naysayers. We'll buy it just to piss them off.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Rockstar needs to shut its doors
(Anonymous)
2005-11-18 07:59 pm UTC (link)
Everyone is getting upset over the politicians stand on violent video games but you're missing the underlying problem. Yes we can create games with ultra real violence and simulated violent crime, but does that mean we should? Rockstar is just fueling a problem that shouldn’t exist.

Being the bad guy is fine, but there's a line - and Rockstar has crossed it. Enjoyment out of bullying others, killing prostitutes, shooting cops, etc is wrong - virtual or not. I'm sure you would all feel differently if these games featured rape and child molestation in them. Of course in our society rape and child molestation are worse than the murder of an innocent life and would never be featured in a video game (at least we hope…), talk about taboos. But stand back and think about it, isn’t the murder of an innocent life truly worse than rape or molestation? Why do we feature murdering some bystander on the street but we will not feature raping of that same bystander? Theoretically rape is much more common than murder (do not show many any statistics on this – much rape goes unreported).

I like violent games to a certain extent, but there is a cut off. What do I mean by ultra real violence? Think of GuineaPig, Faces of Death, and Cannibal Holocaust. Sure there are no games out currently that depict that kind of ultra real violence, and ones that do feature a high level of violence are adults only and usually warrant the blood content. (IE Doom, Fear, etc) The problem is it's only a matter of time before we're able to slice someone open and perform our own virtual autopsy (and no I'm not talking about some medical training game). My concern with ultra violence is that it may some day be depicted along side of simulated violent crime and we will see more realistic simulated violent crime.

Rockstar is leading the game industry down a very dark path. Simulated violent crime and ultra real violence in video games should not exist. GTA was a breath of fresh air but should have stopped with that. Rockstar creating Bully just goes to show that it cares little about the gaming industry on a whole. It draws negative publicity to the gaming industry then instead of backing off it pushes forward to create another controversial game to fuel the problem further. Rockstar is –not- helping the situation. I hope more people take Warren Spectors approach (even jokingly, his speech had a lot of truth).

I will turn the tables on my argument a little and will agree that because Bully has not been released yet it could take a whole different stand point. Perhaps bullying being punished in the game will have a completely different reaction than everyone is expecting. But Rockstar is not doing anything to prove to us that Bully is not the bully centric game that press releases are depicting. If there is more to this punishing bullying thing then Rockstar is shooting itself in the foot by not releasing some sort of demo or press release to prove it. Right now this negative publicity is not going to increase its sales, especially if it gets banned in several countries.

Ps. I am anonymous simply because I do not feel like creating an account.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Rockstar needs to shut its doors
[info]expert_gamer
2005-11-19 02:56 am UTC (link)
"Rockstar is leading the game industry down a very dark path. Simulated violent crime and ultra real violence in video games should not exist. GTA was a breath of fresh air but should have stopped with that. Rockstar creating Bully just goes to show that it cares little about the gaming industry on a whole. It draws negative publicity to the gaming industry then instead of backing off it pushes forward to create another controversial game to fuel the problem further. Rockstar is –not- helping the situation. I hope more people take Warren Spectors approach (even jokingly, his speech had a lot of truth)."

As someone with years of experience of video games, I gonna have to disagree with everything you said. Rockstar is not causing controversy towards the video game industry, the people who complain about the violence in games do that. Why don't people start this much controversy over real life violence? All of the people who complain about that fail to understand that video games ARE NOT real and nobody is really being killed, just like in movies. Trying to explain to old wrinkly ass adults that games are not real is just like trying to explain to a small child that actors in movies are just acting and nobody is really being hurt. If all these anti-gamers don't think that video game violence is real then they wouldn't be bitchin' their mouths off about them. They obviously have no intelligence. Rockstar is just a company that falls victim to so many haters because Rockstar gives gamers what they want, one hell of a game with no boundaries. People who are against the ability to make products the way you want are people who are against the Bill of Rights. Next year, I hope Rockstar makes a new Grand Theft Auto on the PS3 and Xbox 360, and they make it more violent, more realistic, and more gory (I'm talking about the ability to make a normal city look like Venice, but with rivers and lakes of the blood of all the anti-gamers that Rockstar should put in the game). And this will be the hottest selling product in the history of home entertainment and Rockstar should tell all those stupid haters to kiss their ass. Long live Rockstar.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Rockstar's fueling the fight
[info]thevaik
2005-11-18 08:03 pm UTC (link)
Everyone is getting upset over the politicians stand on violent video games but you're missing the underlying problem. Yes we can create games with ultra real violence and simulated violent crime, but does that mean we should? Rockstar is just fueling a problem that shouldn’t exist.

Being the bad guy is fine, but there's a line - and Rockstar has crossed it. Enjoyment out of bullying others, killing prostitutes, shooting cops, etc is wrong - virtual or not. I'm sure you would all feel differently if these games featured rape and child molestation in them. Of course in our society rape and child molestation are worse than the murder of an innocent life and would never be featured in a video game (at least we hope…), talk about taboos. But stand back and think about it, isn’t the murder of an innocent life truly worse than rape or molestation? Why do we feature murdering some bystander on the street but we will not feature raping of that same bystander? Theoretically rape is much more common than murder (do not show many any statistics on this – much rape goes unreported).

I like violent games to a certain extent, but there is a cut off. What do I mean by ultra real violence? Think of GuineaPig, Faces of Death, and Cannibal Holocaust. Sure there are no games out currently that depict that kind of ultra real violence, and ones that do feature a high level of violence are adults only and usually warrant the blood content. (IE Doom, Fear, etc) The problem is it's only a matter of time before we're able to slice someone open and perform our own virtual autopsy (and no I'm not talking about some medical training game). My concern with ultra violence is that it may some day be depicted along side of simulated violent crime and we will see more realistic simulated violent crime.

Rockstar is leading the game industry down a very dark path. Simulated violent crime and ultra real violence in video games should not exist. GTA was a breath of fresh air but should have stopped with that. Rockstar creating Bully just goes to show that it cares little about the gaming industry on a whole. It draws negative publicity to the gaming industry then instead of backing off it pushes forward to create another controversial game to fuel the problem further. Rockstar is –not- helping the situation. I hope more people take Warren Spectors approach (even jokingly, his speech had a lot of truth).

I will turn the tables on my argument a little and will agree that because Bully has not been released yet it could take a whole different stand point. Perhaps bullying being punished in the game will have a completely different reaction than everyone is expecting. But Rockstar is not doing anything to prove to us that Bully is not the bully centric game that press releases are depicting. If there is more to this punishing bullying, or bullying bullies thing then Rockstar is shooting itself in the foot by not releasing some sort of demo or press release to stop speculation on what the game really is. Right now this negative publicity is not going to increase its sales, especially if it gets banned in several countries.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Rockstar's fueling the fight
[info]apathyislife
2005-11-18 08:16 pm UTC (link)
I don't know why, but your arguement reminds me of that anti gay marriage arguement.

"What next? Marrying your dog?"

Yeah, yeah, I know. apples to oranges, but the but frankly my response is pretty much the same. However, I will always disagree with the notion that media only gets more extreme as you go along. Society has only become less extreme over the ages, as there are ancient societies in which you were only a man when you did a boy, and the vomitorium was acceptable practice.

So, long story short, I don't follow your logic.

I agree that GTA is a gratuitous game... but honestly... I don't particularly like the game, so I'm of the mind to ignore it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Rockstar's fueling the fight - [info]catch_33, 2005-11-18 08:21 pm UTC
Re: Rockstar's fueling the fight - [info]andrew_eisen, 2005-11-18 08:22 pm UTC
Re: Rockstar's fueling the fight - [info]loveberry, 2005-11-18 11:09 pm UTC
Re: Rockstar's fueling the fight - [info]hilaryduffgta, 2005-11-18 10:21 pm UTC
Re: Rockstar's fueling the fight - [info]sedyn, 2005-11-18 11:12 pm UTC
Re: Rockstar's fueling the fight - [info]hilaryduffgta, 2005-11-18 11:19 pm UTC
Re: Rockstar's fueling the fight - [info]sedyn, 2005-11-18 11:28 pm UTC
Re: Rockstar's fueling the fight - [info]hilaryduffgta, 2005-11-18 11:48 pm UTC
Re: Rockstar's fueling the fight - [info]expert_gamer, 2005-11-19 03:01 am UTC
This may be a little childish, but...
[info]evilrockstu
2005-11-18 08:12 pm UTC (link)
...I can't wait until Bully actually gets released and contains absolutely none of the unsuitable content these morons claim it to have, turns out to be a totally awesome videogame, and goes on to generally make everyone who has ever actually spent a day in school smile and feel good about themselves.

Unfortunatly (knowing Rockstar) that probably won't be the case - I'm expecting another State of Emergency (pointlessly shocking, pointlessly crap) - but it would be something nice to shove in the face of all these apparent psychics who know everything about the game even though there's probably people at Rockstar itself who don't even know anything. Either way, it's irrelevant - here's why:

I was bullied as much as the next computer geek, and what REALLY offends me is that after all the shit I took as a kid, these fucking idiots come around and claim that it's the fault of the videogames that I play and enjoy that the world is full of violent nutters. Why am I being persecuted, if I was the victim in the first place? I mean, it's like rubbing salt in the wounds. I put up with shit as a kid because these idiots couldn't do their jobs properly. Now I'm putting up with shit as an adult, because these idiots STILL can't do their jobs properly, and are looking for something to blame for it. Come on, now. s

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: This may be a little childish, but...
[info]jabrwock
2005-11-18 08:20 pm UTC (link)
what REALLY offends me is that after all the shit I took as a kid, these fucking idiots come around and claim that it's the fault of the videogames that I play and enjoy that the world is full of violent nutters.

Of course! It all makes sense now! *slaps forehead* I realise now that those football jocks who bullied me in school were really just closet gamers, acting out their pre-programmed violent behaviors brought on by their cranial menus! It wasn't their fault at all!

...

Or not... seeing as how the guys who bullied me would have "trained" on Super Mario Bros. And seeing as how they punched, pushed, and twisted me, rather than jumping on me, I'd have to say that theory goes out the window... :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: This may be a little childish, but... - [info]evilrockstu, 2005-11-18 08:54 pm UTC
Re: This may be a little childish, but... - [info]apathyislife, 2005-11-18 09:03 pm UTC
Re: This may be a little childish, but... - (Anonymous), 2005-11-19 07:56 am UTC
bullying
[info]sedyn
2005-11-18 08:35 pm UTC (link)
"I know from my constituents how harmful bullying is and what pain it causes young people" - Michael Foster

I know that bullying is a lot worse now then it used to be, but ANYONE who has gone to any school should know about bullying.

"Our view is that bullying is not a joke. It is not a suitable subject for computer games." -Liz Carnell

I honest to god hope that one message is put in this game loud and clear, that message is, if you are being bullied than you are not alone.^1 They might even be able to get that in with just a multiplayer option. That positive message would absolve them from many criticisms in my book, even the "jokes" about the topic.

Then again, I'm weary of people in the spotlight who talk about bullying. In my experience, the aggressive/assertive personality type required to get into the public spotlight are either found in bullies (inclusive) or very charismatic people.

But for the love of God, don't criticize something until its finished.^2 What happens if rockstar decides to change some content for the specific reason of discrediting a high profile anti-gamer? In some cases they could even deny that it was ever there.

But after reading what was said ^3 ("And such games give the impression that these types of experiences are normal...") I'm a little concerned that these "experts" don't know how brutal some bullies can be. I've seen stuff like this in schools, as I'm sure we all have. In fact, the image I linked is pretty tame compared to fights I've seen. I know they shouldn't be happening, but denying that they are is much more dangerous.

1,2, 3 ^1 - "He added that Rockstar hoped to have a constructive dialogue about the game with anti-bullying charities once it was finished."

^2 - "Rockstar has invited Bullying Online to New York to see the game for themselves."

(Reply to this)

Rockstar might be setting them up for a major screw job
[info]yukimurasanada
2005-11-18 08:53 pm UTC (link)
Considering that rockstar has long been about giving moralists the finger,one of the things that I have come to suspect is that Bully, even with it's violent content, will turn up to be a major show in the face of all this "games ar teh evil" people. I think rockstar, just so they can shut these people up, have changed the game so that it promotes a strong, anti bully message throughout.

On top of that, I also wish to bet that the game will focus on dealing with bullies, since we all know teachers and admins are failures when it comes to that, perhaps this game will give kids the confidence to stand up for themselves.

Overall, no one knows what the game is like, as it's not out yet, but a part of me thinks that rockstar want to have bully be an answer to all the whining and bitching idiots like this guy, jt, and others have been making about it.

Maybe, just maybe, if i'm right, this will get them all to STFU.

Just my thoughts

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Rockstar might be setting them up for a major screw job
[info]catch_33
2005-11-18 08:58 pm UTC (link)
I wish I could see the collective face of all the naysayers when Bully's released. Rockstar's playing them all like a fucking fiddle.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Rockstar might be setting them up for a major screw job - [info]sedyn, 2005-11-18 09:16 pm UTC
Re: Rockstar might be setting them up for a major screw job - [info]catch_33, 2005-11-18 09:22 pm UTC
Re: Rockstar might be setting them up for a major screw job - [info]sedyn, 2005-11-18 09:30 pm UTC
What a bitch
[info]catch_33
2005-11-18 08:56 pm UTC (link)
"I've had dozens of complaints from people who find this game offensive," Liz Carnell added. "But I've also had dozens of hate e-mails, some of which have been very abusive. I think this demonstrates the type of person this game is targeted at."

Nice generalization there. JT did that with the people who sent him hate mail, by the way.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: What a bitch
[info]bonghitsfojesus
2005-11-18 10:58 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, if she had just changed 'the type' to 'a type' there wouldn't have been a problem. Of course, her "point" would then be diminished. I'd hope someone would go on TV and tell her straight-up that censorship is bullshit. Just someone to speak for the cause.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: What a bitch - [info]bustermanzero, 2005-11-18 11:34 pm UTC
Re: What a bitch - [info]catch_33, 2005-11-19 03:28 am UTC

[info]dagrak
2005-11-18 11:01 pm UTC (link)
Whilst I don't want to see Bully banned (I won't play it but others should be able to if they wish) I think in light of recent news stories over here where one girl was slashed across the face, another stabbed and another to the point of hospitalisation along with a teenage race crime, I think over here in the UK we are going to have to accept that Bully will either be banned out right or delayed to an extreme point. I have to state this clearly that the opposition to this game is not a "gamers are evil" point but is simply in light of the anti bullying campaign that is going on over here.

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2005-11-19 03:06 am UTC (link)
"I know from my constituents how harmful bullying is and what pain it causes young people"

...why does he need his constituents to tell him that?

(food for thought maybe?)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]catch_33
2005-11-19 04:15 am UTC (link)
Politicians have this really bad habit of being out of touch with reality sometimes.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Bullying in real life
[info]expert_gamer
2005-11-19 03:55 am UTC (link)
People take bullying in a video game more seriously than they take bullying in real life. Why don't they do something useful with their anti-bullying campaign and try to get schools to enforce more serious consequences to bullying, like being arrested for the first offense of bullying? Also, usually when children or teens tell their parents that they are being bullied at schoold all they will say is to ignore them. They don't even take bullying seriously. If their child is being bullied, a parent that actually cared would give their child a can of pepper spray, taser, and brass knuckles. And if that doesn't work they should give their child his own personal body guard.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Bullying in real life
[info]catch_33
2005-11-19 04:14 am UTC (link)
Some people think it's a sign of lost humanity when games like Bully are released and make a lot of money. Well I think it's a sign of lost humanity when people focus more on fantasy than reality.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Bullying in real life - [info]expert_gamer, 2005-11-19 04:18 am UTC
Re: Bullying in real life - [info]catch_33, 2005-11-19 05:00 am UTC
VIDEO GAMES HAVE A POSITIVE INFLUENCE
[info]expert_gamer
2005-11-19 03:58 am UTC (link)
In reality video games only prevent kids and teens from getting in trouble. I am the only one in my family who is crazy about games and I am a straight "A", honor roll high school student who has never got into any trouble, because I was too busy playing video games. My brother and my sister, who don't care much about games, both have became friends with the wrong kinds of people. My sister ended up becoming a Vegas hooker working for an abusive pimp, and my brother is looking more and more like a gangster everytime I see him. If they spent a lot of time playing video games this probably wouldn't have occured.

Every thing I have just mentioned is 100% true.

(Reply to this)


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